3.3ltr whipple into Ls400

hypronet

Member
there is a bit off a difference between the 2 an i will try an explain
both Zuffen, Cobber & JBrady are right

the cheap way is with a oil cooler or radiator
then you hope the solder doesnt give or wear away, then ur in deep shit

The Laminova's look like they'll never flow any air through them but it's when you do the maths you realise just how clever they really are.
Ok, with each of these cores the core fin is 0.2mm thick and the air gap between each fin is 0.3mm so there's 66% of air gap in each core, it just doesn't seem like it but it is.

If you ever get hold of one hold it up to the light and look through the fins and you'll see what I mean.
Check out the cross section area of each slot multiply for the number of cores and there is more room for air to flow through than any other water to air or even most air to airs.
The benefit of this design is like having thousands of razor blades cutting the air as it passes through, each fin is then transferring it's heat to the water channels directly beneath and the actual surface area of each core is absolutely massive.

So when you compare the Laminova core to a radiator of the same thickness, lets say 40mm or 1.55" for the US guys, the air is travelling straight down, but on the laminova being curved, the distance is longer and has better contact and there is more surface area on a laminova core compared to a std radiator, so you well get better heat transfer with the laminova core.
With the laminova core, you also have dual water flow passages (inner an outer) as shown in above pict, this helps with heat transfer too where you dont get this with a std radiator core.

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

Zuffen

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Laminova has enormous cooling surface area for its given size.

They are incredibly compact and efficient.

Probably why they aren't exactly cheap.
 

hypronet

Member
you can get the cores on ebay an you can pick them up for about $50 usd each or you can pay over $170 each in other locations.

there is a couple of places here in Oz that do sell these setups as a complete unit like high [erformance products, but i dont feel like paying over $2000 just for the cooler when i can get all the parts an get the other bits made for less?

again it comes down to time, how much u have to what ur going to spend.

So im buying my cores off ebay an getting the orings, lock washers an plugs from http://www.batinc.net

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

JustenGT8

New Member
Where these setups look to fall down to me is not the core, which is very clever, but the slotted housing you use with them? The 15mm slot is not a nice entrance, less than ideal shape and compromised x-sectional area?

I have only seen 2 tests with completely opposite results, so for now i'm waiting to be convinced...especially as it's a fair investment to go down this path.
 

hypronet

Member
Where these setups look to fall down to me is not the core, which is very clever, but the slotted housing you use with them? The 15mm slot is not a nice entrance, less than ideal shape and compromised x-sectional area?

I have only seen 2 tests with completely opposite results, so for now i'm waiting to be convinced...especially as it's a fair investment to go down this path.
true, it's a fair investment

but its the same with most good W2A IC

Whipple do have there own type, but they use a copper radiator core in there 1, then you have Superchiller IC an a couple of others out there, but the cost is about the same, from $1700 up.

A2A is cheap an will do a good job in 80% of cases if you have the room to fit a good size IC up front an dont mind cutting ur front bar up to fit it.

slot opening does seem small, im looking at 18 to 20 mm with this IC

im looking at putting this together for less then or about $1K
4 x cores, orings, lock waskers and plugs w spares
block of alloy an machine work is the expensive part off it

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

fastegg

New Member
dyno tuning

hoy my hypronet..... maybe give me a bell when your putting the LS on the dyno and i'll motor over and take a peep.....
 

hypronet

Member
ok,
i have my t56 box now :D
just have to arrange adaptor plate flywheel an clutch, redo tailshaft with t56 yoke then ready to install.

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

JBrady

Moderator
Where these setups look to fall down to me is not the core, which is very clever, but the slotted housing you use with them? The 15mm slot is not a nice entrance, less than ideal shape and compromised x-sectional area?

I have only seen 2 tests with completely opposite results, so for now i'm waiting to be convinced...especially as it's a fair investment to go down this path.
Cross section area of the slot is fine. 18mm (0.71") by 300mm (11.8") (guessing on slot length since total length of the cooler is stated at 410mm) is 54 sq/cm (8.38 sq/in) which is more than the cross section area of a 3.25" exhaust tube and there are 4 of them in this design. The shape of the slot(s) also contribute(s) to the distribution equalization. The edge shape may not be ideal since it is fairly sharp but everything is a compromise.

The design of the cores looks robust enough to try something like using a CO2 bottle and doing an expansion cooling settup instead of water through the cores for short contests such as drag racing. Maybe water and CO2.
 
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fastegg

New Member
w2a intercooler

how about hooking the w2a intercooler up to the air conditioner compressor and pump refridgerant thru it ?
 

hypronet

Member
you can use what they call a killer chiller?
you dont see these here in Oz, but in the US they are common on the supercharged mustangs
http://www.killerchiller.com/
they go for about $700 usd and hook up to ur a/c to help cool w2a ic units




http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

hypronet

Member
Cross section area of the slot is fine. 18mm (0.71") by 300mm (11.8") (guessing on slot length since total length of the cooler is stated at 410mm) is 540 sq/cm (8.38 sq/in) which is more than the cross section area of a 3.25" exhaust tube and there are 4 of them in this design. The shape of the slot(s) also contribute(s) to the distribution equalization. The edge shape may not be ideal since it is fairly sharp but everything is a compromise.

The design of the cores looks robust enough to try something like using a CO2 bottle and doing an expansion cooling settup instead of water through the cores for short contests such as drag racing. Maybe water and CO2.
Now that is a pretty good guess, and ur right
slots are 300mm long
they will be 18mm wide
an 4 off
an i will be doing radius edges on the slots to help with air flow in an out

i just not sure if the 3 point cnc will be able to do it, or if i will have to do it by hand with the die grinder

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!!
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi,
Torsen Lsd, Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
 

fastegg

New Member
w2a intercooler

yeah baby !!!! the killer chiller.... that's what i'm talk'in about... a refridgerated intercooler...... CRANK UP THE BOOST ! ! ! ! :)
 

fastegg

New Member
w2a intercooler

OH YEAH BABY !!!!!!!! Now your talk'in...... like ...................................WOW .......................
.
man, i like that.... i like it alot..... i can't stop looking at it........
..... . . . . Now that's a real f**k off system.. .. .. . . . . . . . .
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
********* now ive got a woody happening********
 

JustenGT8

New Member
Cross section area of the slot is fine. 18mm (0.71") by 300mm (11.8") (guessing on slot length since total length of the cooler is stated at 410mm) is 540 sq/cm (8.38 sq/in) which is more than the cross section area of a 3.25" exhaust tube and there are 4 of them in this design. The shape of the slot(s) also contribute(s) to the distribution equalization. The edge shape may not be ideal since it is fairly sharp but everything is a compromise.
Still compromised compared to a nice open plenum is my point. As i said, waiting to be convinced and currently i'm not by some paper specs. Real world results i have seen have been mixed and the independent result was poor?

The theory is good but useful real world only if the application is also good. Maybe they are sensitive to design parameters or fabrication tolerances?
 

JBrady

Moderator
Still compromised compared to a nice open plenum is my point. As i said, waiting to be convinced and currently i'm not by some paper specs. Real world results i have seen have been mixed and the independent result was poor?

The theory is good but useful real world only if the application is also good. Maybe they are sensitive to design parameters or fabrication tolerances?
Some healthy sceptism is not a bad thing. I have seen combo's that were supposed to work... not... and I have seen things that should not work... work!

That said plenum area is only important after cooling and that area can actually extend into the cores to some degree. Less expansion and re-compression means lower pumping losses.

The total flow area of this proposed IC core is 54 sq/cm x 4 x 66% = 1425 sq/cm ( 22 sq/in) (corrected my previous posting from 540 to the actual 54 sq/cm). Anyone have any area calculations for a typical tube or bar and plate A/A intercooler core? My guess is the equivilant will be a big core.

Here is a posting that claims the tube style pictured has 3.2sq/in while the bar/plate style has 5.3sq/in. These look to be 5 inch tall sections. This would equate to a bar/plate core more than 20" tall to equal the cross section area of the Laminova design here. A twenty inch tall A/A core is pretty stout.



Of course proof of concept is always needed. My guess/vote is that it will work well.
 
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