what is needed for a low mount turbo?

[XR8tt]

Most set them up with an adapter off the oil pump sensor with -4 pipe so engine pressure supplies oil...
Due to turbo being lower than sump an electric oil pump is needed to return oil back to engine.. Or the oil will blow through the seals and smoke like cash for wrecks engine..
I would set it up like the PDF link above.. Turbo, cooler, pump, engine...
Some set them up as an enclosed oil system separate from engine..
Only issue is "IF" elect pump stops !! Your turbo is cactus!! With engine oil supply it would just flood with oil, leak through seals and smoke...
Some add a SMALL sump under turbo [500cc or so, like catch can] and scavenge from there. Again this helps in pump working at lower oil temps and works like a surge tank as well...

 

[Thermactor]

Thanks for posting those pictures of the swap. Must be an absolute monster. Do you foresee sharing technical details on the throttle setup for those who might want to swap that motor in?

 

[bulldog11267mad]

I dont know the technicle detales of the throttle board as i handed it to my brother and 2 weeks later he gave it back to me finished. I could find out more about if some one needs to know. This is the basic info on it. The throttle peddle has 6 wires in it. they have a redundant system 3 wires are the postison sensor and the other 3 are the same thing. those signals are sent to the board my brother made. The board checks the signal to make sure the are both reading the same if for some reason they don't it will not send the signal out to the throttle body. The throttle body gets a pulsing signal of positive and negative. the faster the pulses is the more the throttle body opens. if you want it to stay stationary it slows down the pulse and it will stay at whatever position u have it at. the throttle body sends back the throttle position to the ECU and to peddle control board. i dont know much more about it then that.

 

[MitchP]

Very cool that your brother has made you a DBW controller for you. Seeing the nice (i.e. $$$) four channel color scope make me feel better that it looks like he knows what he's doing. I hope you don't run into a "Floor Mat" incident with it.

I have experience designing and programming DBW control systems so if he has any questions, please let me know.

 

[bulldog11267mad]

ok thanks if for some reason we have a problem ill contact you but we have been running his for about 2 months now and so far so good!

 

[stevechumo]

do i stick the pump on so it is sucking the oil through the turbo or pushing?

I think the oil pump must be as close to the turbo as possible to make sure it can suck out the oil fast enough. Also, another issue that I can think of is how the oil pump will get the power from. You don't want it to run when the engine isn't running. A dry pump may fail.

 

[XR8tt]

In this situation it could be wired via the fuel pump circuit via relay and fuse..
The 5 to 10 seconds the fuel pump primes when key is turned on isn't going to do any damage, there possibly would be some oil there anyway...
Being engine oil there wouldn't be issues with oil being too thick..​

•

Flow rate: 1-2 gal/min (4.6-9.1 liters/min) • Working pressure: 60 PSI (3.5 bar) maximum • Power: 12-volt DC
• Temperature range: Fluid temperatures up to 265°F (130°C) constant • Prime: Self-priming up 8 ft (2.6 meters) vertical height

​

​

A. How It Works
The Tilton Differential Pump is a positive displacement type of pump, so its
output is directly proportional to the motor speed. If a lighter load increases
the motor speed by 25%, then the flow rate increases by 25%. The flow rate​

vs. pressure is shown in

​

​

Graph 1 with a maximum available pressure of 60​

PSI. A fluid system will only flow as much as the smallest restriction will allow.

Larger diameter lines and fittings allow more flow and place less load on the

pump. This pump is self-priming and can be placed up to 8 ft above the
source from which it draws. The typical application for the pump is in a differential
or transmission cooling system. However, the pump can be used for
other applications such as emptying fuel tanks. A 12-volt DC, 10-amp power
supply is required. The current draw is 6.6 amps under a maximum load condition
with a more typical current draw between 2 and 3 amps. This pump has a very light weight at 3.5 lbs and has a
flow rate of 1-2 gallons per minute. There are two types of diaphragms available for the differential pumps; the BUNA
type diaphragms are for standard coolants and the VITON diaphragms are for the more corrosive coolants.
​

​

B. Installation Notes

The Tilton Differential Pump is placed inline with the cooling system as shown in
Diagram 1​

. Placing the pump on the outlet side of the cooler exposes it to lower​

temperatures significantly increasing the life and reliability of the pump. A 20-mesh

strainer or filter placed inline before the inlet of the pump prevents foreign objects

from damaging the pump. Heavy gear oil must be brought up to operating temperature
before the pump is engaged. The cold fluid can be very thick and place an
unusually large strain on the pump. Tilton recommends the use of an on/off switch
so the pump can be turned off during warm-up periods. The pump includes an
integral cooling fan to keep the pump cool during loaded conditions. If the pump is
mounted in a vertical position, mount the pump with the motor above the pump inlet
and outlet to prevent damage to the motor in the event of a fluid leak. The pump
head can be rotated in 180-degree increments, allowing a variety of hose positions.
Be careful not to damage the plastic pump housing by over tightening the fittings. If
a check valve is placed inline with the pump, the check valve must have an opening
pressure of no more than 2 PSI. The electrical hook-up is simple. Connect the pump to a 12-volt DC supply with a 10-
amp fuse inline with the (red) positive lead. The black lead is the chassis ground.​

​

Another link with info...

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm

7​

​

 

[JBrady]

I like low mount turbos for multiple reasons: low center of gravity, minimizing hot parts in engine compartment, streamlined exhaust flow, stealth. Oil return has always been a need/concern and electric pumps have benefits and negatives.

One idea I never see pursued was shared with me years ago and used engine vacuum to pull the oil back up to the engine. Obviously this works during off boost operation and pump support of some kind would be needed during boost applications but the idea has many positives. No pump during most operating time for street duty. Silent. Simple. Highly reliable. If support pump fails simply drive off boost until service is possible. Adding a vacuum reservoir would create even more reliability. Support pump could be a wet positive displacement type or a dry vacuum pump (modified emissions air pump?). Return to just above oil level into a separator with drain to crankcase.

 

[stevechumo]

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm

7​

This link is awesome. I kept reading on.

As John mentioned about the vacuum pump, I'd like to see some more details on how it works. Part of John's idea leads me to think of using the stock hydraulic fan pump as for the return line. Connect the turbo's oil outlet to the pump inlet. And the pump outlet goes to the oil pan. The concern that I have is it may not have enough suction force for the long line. But it's a possibility. In this application, the hydraulic fan isn't used.

 

[XR8tt]

I tend to think vacuum and pump are two different things ???
Besides too much vacuum creates shaft seal, bearing issues in turbo..
In some cases a vent has to be added on suction side to prevent this..
I guess a gear pump can be used off the accessory belt such as fan pump??
Then used as stand alone oiling system?? This way engine debris, carbon doesn't go through turbo..
Keep in mind .. If elect pump fails the turbo may not nessesary go bad if oil is supplied by engine oiling system..
The turbo is still being supplied with oil...

 

[JBrady]

I think the best bet for a gear style pump would be wet as in down at turbo outlet level. The stock hydraulic pump would actually be a nice power source for a remote mount 2 stage hydraulic motor/pump.

The idea for the vacuum system would use engine vacuum with a vacuum reservoir for 95% of return needs. In fact if a sufficient sump was used along with low oil use ball bearing turbos the above may be enough for a street application. For the remaining time either a low mount pump OR a high mount electric or belt driven vacuum would be needed. Many engine used a vane style air pump to feed the exhaust with extra air for emissions. Using the inlet of such a pump to pull vacuum would be a consideration. Max vacuum could possibly be effectively controlled with a check valve and pressure bleed arrangement. Conversly a low mount electric pump would require some type of bypass for any vacuum operation to function.

The more I think about it the more I like the hydraulic motor solution.

 

[XR8tt]

Put a Chevy badge on the back and go total loss ???
Have no oil return ??? Lol....

 

[JBrady]

Put a Chevy badge on the back and go total loss ???
Have no oil return ??? Lol....

Not a Corvette fan eh?

I am an LS1/LSx fan due to simplicity and light weight in a surprisingly efficient package. Helping rebuild a 1969 Vette right now. May not have the quality of a Lexus (by a long shot) but scores very well on the cool scale.

Examples:

 

[SC400TT]

Those earlier model Vettes are way cool, John!! Must be fun to be on that build.

Ryan

 

[XR8tt]

Aha yea men around here buy them when have a MLC.. Mid life crises..Lol...
I like Detroit Iron but being a Lexus forum I guess we can sling alittle.. Aha...

 

[JBrady]

Aha yea men around here buy them when have a MLC.. Mid life crises..Lol...
I like Detroit Iron but being a Lexus forum I guess we can sling alittle.. Aha...

Sure, sling whatever as long as it is in good cheer.

I am a car guy, don't care who made it or where it came from as long as it has something innovative and/or artistic and has power potential. Heck the new Hyundai Coupe is pretty sweet, Mustangs, rally based cars, engine transplants, naturally aspirated, super/turbocharged, nitrous, alt fuel, manual or automatic. Not a big fan of CVT but like the potential.

Anyway, I bet very few pass by me in my LS400 thinking there goes a car guy! Mine is one of the very few LS400 that has actually been down a drag strip. What it really needs (back to thread topic) is a couple low mount turbos!

 

[XR8tt]

These seem durable as oil return..
http://www.turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html

How's things going with build ??

 

[bulldog11267mad]

not to much is being built right now. i need to sell a few more things to get the extra money so i can finish getting the parts i need.

 

[bulldog11267mad]

Well guys i have a bit more done in my turbo build. It took for ever to get the parts i needed but i finally got them in. I ended up going with a Turbowerx exa pump, precision air to air intercooler, and long tube headers sense it is a low mount turbo. Now for the engine. I pulled it apart and got some Ross piston from are very own lextreme. Then i got Oliver rods to make me a custom set of Rods, that took a long time. The bottom end is now able to hold 1000hp so i should be plenty safe with my goal of 700hp. I then sent the pistons off to get a non friction and heat coating applied. Then had the bottom end balanced. Got everything back and re assemble the engine. Now im just waiting on time to install the engine then start to hook up the turbo.

 

[bulldog11267mad]

a few more pictures. for some reason i can only upload 2 pictures at a time