Towing Capacity & Turbocharge

[stevechumo]

I'm thinking of buying a '2000 4 cylinders Toyota Tacoma 4x4 with auto tranny. The critical thing is I'd like to turbocharge it and add maybe another 70 hp so that I can tow like a V6. However, I don't know if its suspension and tranny can handle like a V6. Here're the specs between the 4 cylinders and 6 cylinders:

4 cylinders, 4x4 XtraCab ............................6 cylinders, 4x4 XtraCab

Curbweight: 3390 lbs ...................................Curbweight: 3455 lbs
Displacement: 2.7 Liters ...............................Displacement: 3.4 Liters
Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs ..........................Towing Capacity: 5,000 lbs
Horsepower: 150 hp ....................................Horsepower: 190 hp

Besides the differences above, all other factors equal from wheelbase, length, height...etc.

If anyone has any ideas, I really appreciate it.

 

[jibbby]

That is a tough call Steve...What will the car be used for?

 

[stevechumo]

That is a tough call Steve...What will the car be used for?

I'm thinking I might need a truck for daily commuting and boat towing or off-roading occasionally. I still keep my SC w/ turbo as a weekend driver. That means I'll turbocharge both of the cars.

 

[jibbby]

With your turbo knowlege go with the 4 banger truck....maybe... I don't know how good turbo's work for towing boats...Then again don't know if the 6 banger N/A will have enough ponies to tow a boat either....I know my 4.3 liter Landcruiser would be pressed to tow a average size boat, and I have exhaust mod's.... If you got the 6 banger truck you would still most likely have to turbo that as well, so I guess if the power can be derived from turbo'ing the 4 banger truck that you need and you can save a few bucks then get that.....

It's really up too you Steve....With your turbo experience sky's the limit...

 

[stevechumo]

I've towed a 20 ft boat (inboard with a Ford V8 carburator engine and heavy) with a V6 4x4 Toyota 4Runner very easy. The 4Runner pulled the boat over the low hills and the steep launch ramp pretty quick. Since I didn't have the weight of that boat, I've checked with other newer 20 ft boats (maybe lighter than my boat) and they average of about 4,000 lbs. So I guess I can tow a 22 - 23 ft boat averaging a little more than 5,000 lbs.

The V6 4Runner has a 5,000 lbs of towing capacity. So if I turbocharge a Tacoma and make it a little more powerful than a stock V6 4Runner, I hope it can handle a 22-23 ft boat. That's all I need to go to Catalina or San Diego's bordering with Mexico. The reason I don't want to go with a V6 Tacoma 4x4 is its cost. It's about $3K more expensive than the 4 cylinders. With only $1K, I can build a low boost turbo system for that 4 banger.

 

[Lextreme II]

I would stick with the V6 instead of the 4 banger with a turbo. Its much more reliable in NA form than turbo form. Secondly, if you want the pickup to do towling, the supercharger would be a better choice. Most of the towling needs are in the lower end. Turbo most likely would not comes on until mid range.

 

[jibbby]

I concure David...V6 stock parts are most likely made to be more durable over time...Spend the 3K. It sounds like these newer 4 runners and Tacoma's are up for the towing task with out turbo charging... The 4 banger will have no lowend even with turbo's, pulling the boat out of water with a 4 banger 4X4 could be challenging...Stops and starts on inclines would be trouble too...Got to have that lowend torque....Also braking power maybe compromised when towing with the 4 banger....

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

Heat will kill your engine.

think, if you tow someting and you keep the engine on high boost for a good period of time, something bad will happen. you'd better have very good forged/coated pistons, oil squirters and a very good oil cooler.

I share the same opinion as Lex. the difference in MPG is not enough to support the turbocharged setup. Also, suspension, brakes, transmission must be tougher on the V6 version.

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

I concure David...V6 stock parts are most likely made to be more durable over time...Spend the 3K. It sounds like these newer 4 runners and Tacoma's are up for the towing task with out turbo charging... The 4 banger will have no lowend even with turbo's, pulling the boat out of water with a 4 banger 4X4 could be challenging...Stops and starts on inclines would be trouble too...Got to have that lowend torque....Also braking power maybe compromised when towing with the 4 banger....

the 2.7 liter 4 banger will have a high low-end torque for the engine size. it's still a very big 4 banger.

 

[stevechumo]

I appreciate for all of your opinions. They all make sense and sound correct. But I'm still wondering why there're several trucks, including the daily driving domestic trucks and the 18 wheelers still use turbos. They don't seem to have any problems.

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

do not compare a diesel engine with a gasoline engine.

diesel engine uses very very strong and thick pistons and rods. Diesel engine produce less heat during the combustion than the gasoline engine. Diesel engine revs lower than a gasoline engine, there's less friction and heat generated by moving parts. Diesel trucks uses Highly efficient oil filtering and cooling system.

 

[jibbby]

How about a turbo diesel? How is that run in comparison to a gasoline engine? If Diesel fuel burns slow how does forced air induction help matters? Wouldn't that either make the fuel burn faster or make the engine rev higher and hotter like a gasoline engine?

I know those diesel engines stink like hell driving behind one.... Especially those older Mercedes diesels 4 doors...I think the 300D models.... Infact, when ever I get behind one of those I want to either run it off the road or reach for my Anti Aircraft Rocket Launcher to blow it off the face of the earth...Those cars have no business being on the road in my opinion........Sorry a little off topic their....

 

[Lextreme II]

[size=+2]Diesel baby.....[/size]

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

How about a turbo diesel? How is that run in comparison to a gasoline engine? If Diesel fuel burns slow how does forced air induction help matters? Wouldn't that either make the fuel burn faster or make the engine rev higher and hotter like a gasoline engine?

I know those diesel engines stink like hell driving behind one.... Especially those older Mercedes diesels 4 doors...I think the 300D models.... Infact, when ever I get behind one of those I want to either run it off the road or reach for my Anti Aircraft Rocket Launcher to blow it off the face of the earth...Those cars have no business being on the road in my opinion........Sorry a little off topic their....

Unlike a gasoline engine, diesel engines does not have a throttle body (except those with available Jacob brakes) but it's only used for jacobs. In a diesel engine, you does not have a Lean, stoïch or rich mixture. In fact, yes you have one, but it doesn not damage the engine. What makes rev a diesel, is the amount of fuel you pour in. When you give throttle, you add more fuel to the injectors, then the engine revs up. A diesel engine always breathe 100% of air, always WOT. The main problem is, once you've passed the "stoïch" point of fuel in air, fuel start to burn incorrectly, then black smokes appear. If fuel burns incorrectly, you have a drop in performance. The turbo is only there to add more air, so you can add more fuel and keep the "clean burning" aspect. Then a lot more torque is produced and no black smoke.

That's why a diesel engine produce less heat, when you don't give it a run, you,ve got full air but low fuel, it produce less heat and the max amount of air keeps the combustion chamber cooler.

That's the basic, now with new Common rail fuel injections and all others systems, it's more complex but i don,t know how they work.

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

ohh yeah, sorry, the advantage to common rail, is that Injectors uses Higher pressure, They can really atomize the heavy fuel like normal gasoline, so it burns faster and better, less smoke. there must be another advantage too but i don't know it (or them)

 

[Toysrme]

That 2.7L i4 is an awesome engine. But, this is a case where it's better to have displacement. Its exactly why toyota dropped the 135bhp -177ftlb 22r-te for the 141/150bhp - 177/180ftlb(and anemic) SOHC 3.0L v6.

Towing with an i4 turbo is great compaired to a base engine (obviously), but compaired to just having the next bigger size engine, you'd just rather have that. Even if you turbo it & have more outright power than the 4.0L 1gr-fe makes. You'll wind up at some point fighting to stay in your powerband, where the other engine won't.

btw, the 4.0L v6 1gr-fe is a tank. It has more power than the original 4.0L 1uz-fe's came with (using the old formula) and more torque outright lol!


To address that, there are (stock) 1gr-fe's already over 450whp. I don't keep up with the (stock) 2.7L, but I do think I can recall afew flirting over 350whp. 2.7L steel block. That's sick.

 

[UZZ30-Québec]

1UZ is not that torquey, compared to the 3UZ, only 300CC more, but 320lbs/ft of torque!!! @ only 3400RPM! that's 60lbs/ft more!!! or 23% more for only 7.5% more displacement

 

[Toysrme]

The powerband is differnt, I'm talking example numbers he can corrilate too.
For refferance, we pull my cuz's 24' '03 Bayliner skiboat with an M/T i4 frontier (150bhp) which sucks. But the old '98 motero sport v6 A/T pulls it like a champ.



I digress. Towing has less to do with the engine & more with the brakes, suspension & frame. I mean... You could move that type of boat around with a miata if you could keep enough weight to get traction. But that's not the issue, it's the brakes & frame that keep u from towing a boat with a miata.





I'd just snatch a bigger truck. I've towed a 6000lb bobcat with the f150 before & it's hairy. You're flirting with warped brake rotors all the time & wondering, "If I really wernch on these brakes... Is that thing gunna bend my truck in half?".

 

[stevechumo]

I've heard that diesel engine lasts a very long time, even our 1UZFE can only become its grandkid.

In case of the low-end torque, I'm thinking of a quick spool turbo like the T25 in the Mitsubishi GST-Spyder that produces 210 hp and 214 tq/lb. This T25 would give me full boost before 2000 RPM so torque will be produced pretty quick. I've used the T25 on a Honda before and I had no power lag at all. So if the T25 is used on this 2.7 Liter engine, the boost will come in even quicker.

For heat, an intercooler would reduce about 30% of the heat generated by the turbo. I might also install a 9" fan for the intercooler. And I'll throw in a tranny cooler to cool down the tranny. There's so much room inside of the front bumper. What do you think? :veryhappy

 

[jibbby]

Quebec- thanks for the Deisel engine breakdown.. One last question before I drive Steve nuts with this Diesel talk on his thread...Quebec, besides the long bore stroke, what makes the deisel engine derive so much torque? Is it the slow burning fuel that creates the huge torque output to drive the 18 wheelers, construction machinery, etc... Why aren't the big liter sized gasoline type engines used in the big industrial vehicles and 18 wheelers? Do Deisel engines just simply last longer and is that the only reason why the are consistently used in big stuff? Longevity?..The big block gasoline engines can generate sick torque too...hhhmmmmmm? What's the deal?????.

As far as 4 cylinder Toyota engines go, I owned a toyota flatbed duelly for my contracting business for years and sold it years ago.....Forgot what liter size that 4 banger was but it was probably 2.4-3.0L or something...Bottom line is I could pull a house with that motor and manual tranny setup...Loaded tons of cement and the truck would pull, all lowend power... So the big four bangers can get the job done for sure...However, I would still prefer the larger size motor... I am thinking the braking system on the four cylinder truck Steve would be an issue when towing..Braking is everything for safety...Traction too...