Twin 'Charger

[1UZ-HZ]

For anyone that hasnt had a look at the new Street Machine, I found the most succesful implentation of a "twin charger setup". Ona lightly modded ls1 a Vortech SQ supercharger feeds into a Water-Air intercooled Eaton MP112. Interestingly the compression ratio is still stock (10.0:1), just the pistons are now forged items. I think it would be awesome to have 8 psi @1500rpm and 17psi at 6000rpm!

 

[Pro]

looks like a waste of money to me.

2 superchargers? that's like having an eight pipe exhaust - just for the hell of it - when a dual system would do just fine.

i dunno - development is great but this is over the top.

great find though...!

 

[Zuffen]

I'll bet it was cheap.

My guess $30,000 Aussie Dolars.

 

[BlownV8]

he should just stick the new twin turbo LS1 kit on it as well.

Can you say RICE

 

[cribbj]

That's a real clean installation. I've always been intrigued by the twin charging concept, but using a turbocharger coupled to a supercharger, so each one can work in its best power band. SC for instant boost on the low end, and the turbo for the upper end. And a TC/SC would have only half the parasitic drag of this SC/SC setup.

Both the Roots or screw style blowers are positive displacement devices, so they're going to compress and pass on whatever they're given, so a centrifugal SC or a turbo feeding into them is perfect. Wonder if there's enough room between the Vortech and the Eaton for one of those barrel PWR intercoolers? The Roots would work better if it were being fed denser air.

Yeah, it's way OTT, but picture twin turbos on the 1UZ feeding dual Jag intercoolers with a common outlet into a Whipple and another W2A under it. Sorta gets the juices flowing, doesn't it?

John

 

[Pro]

why would you run an a2a infront of a w2a?

why not just have one nitrous cooled w2a? i mean, why go halfway when we're talking $AU50K anyways?

 

[thefastj]

Can you say RICE

its a lot better than the bogan'd up 20B that is in the mag also.
was it in the FJ?? i cant remem.... but i feel sorry for the 20B in there.

 

[Lextreme II]

Its all for show. Why would u need two units? They were trying to get lower and higher end power. I have friends tried that. Its a waste of money and its basically for the WOW Factor.....

 

[cribbj]

For the street, sure it's show, rice or whatever you want to call it, but for really high boost, compound FI and interstage intercooling is the only practical way. The concept was proven back in the 30's when Mercedes ran compound superchargers on their F1 cars and were boosting nearly 40psi without intercooling. On methanol of course......John

 

[MaxPower]

Since when was 650+hp at the wheels and two black tracks on the road for as far as u can see all for show??? This car is insane, makes huge torque right off idle and has a crazy top end, go for a lap in it before passing it off as another show pony. It was developed and built by MWS, and in Oz if you wanna know about eaton blowers you go and see Mark at MWS - he has the same setup in his VY SS ute, so Perth ppl go and visit and ask for a test drive. The total outlay on the power upgrades was a fair bit less than AUS$30k too.

 

[Zuffen]

Max,

I'd be very surprised if anyone could get out of it for less than $30,000.

The Eaton set-up was recently on the Net no less than $15,000 Aussie dollars. I actually think it was $17,000.

The Vortech will set you back $6-7,00 and building an LS1 to take it will cost a minimum of $7,000 if not $10,000 or more.

I know that doesn't add up to $30,000 but by the time you start talking intercoolers and engine management you blew a big hole in $35,000

When talking build costs you need to talk what it would cost you Freddy off the street,not what someone in the game can get thru deals and no labour because they do their own.

 

[Pro]

mark's M90 setup for the 304ci V8 is a great piece of engineering. a true 390rwhp BOLT ON - NO MODS setup on an unopened engine.

THAT'S the kind of engineering we need - not $30k monsters. if someone wants to spend that kinda money then good on 'em, but to me, i'll always pass it off as show pony because it's

a) unaffordable,
b) unaffordable and
c) unaffordable.

gary myer's new mustang has 2 chargers and makes insane torque - but its still over the top.

and i don't want to hear about "but what if you could afford it" because i'd never spend $30k on an engine even if i COULD afford it. and especially not in a crappy commodore.

 

[Zuffen]

Gary Meyers car would still be fun to own.

Not too sure it would be fun to drive on the street (not that you could get it registered) as the mountain on the bonnet would stop you seeing anything to the left of straight ahead.

 

[Lextreme II]

My friend made the same setup with the mustang. Its a waste of money. A upgraded Vortech can provide enough hp that engine can handle. The motor has pretty good size cubic already and lower end torque is not necessary needed. Vortech supercharger alone can push over 1000 to -1500 hp.

What this guy should have done is a M112 with turbo.

 

[turboandrew]

IMO, whipple with twin turbos tops it all. Why twin charging? Lots of vortechs and turbos have plenty of high HP capability, but none of them have that high HP capability with low rpm spool. The positive displacement have the instant boost, but no high psi capability. Drive a car with a 1000+ HP turbo and tell me if you like it below 4000 rpm.

Of course it's expensive. When was having your cake and eating it, too ever cheap?!?!

 

[1UZ-HZ]

Yeh I think the setup would be much more suited to an engine with a turbo, especially if you've got a street car with a massive turbo....like mine (hmmmm I gotta stop thinking about crazy ideas or I'll never finish my car)

 

[Lextreme II]

Lets start a thread on a Compound System.

 

[fugly]

I can't see the sense in putting 2 blowers in series the have the same style of boosting, eg.gary myres mustang.
There's a definate advantage in having a blower that's efficient at high rpm blowing through a blower that's efficient at low rpm, sequential turbo 's also come to mind.

 

[Zuffen]

Gary Meyers Mustang has a certain "oh my God" factor that could not be achieved any other way.

Why was John Holmes such a hit? It was the oh my God factor!

 

[GSMnow]

After thinking about the twin blower setup it actually makes more sense. At lower rpms the big Vortech is just like a pipe into the Roots blower so it will just get roots boost down low. Belt it for just 6 or 8 psi and it will still be stump pulling low end torque on a V8. Now as revs climb, the centrifugal Vortech increases pressure ratio exponentially. At some point the Vortech will be pushing the air at about the same rate as the Roots blower is trying to pack it into the cylinders. This is crossover and the belt on the roots blower will have virtualy no drag on it any more. Ideally this would be where you could de-clutch the roots, but that is a pain. Only Toyota did that on the MR2's and a few others. As revs climb further, the more efficient centrifugal blower is trying to push even more air into the engine. If the blower is still sealed in the path with no bypass or clutch there will be more pressure ahead of the blower than behind. This could actually transfer some torque back down the belt into the crank, but it is still wasted power as it all came from the belt spinning the vortech. The boost into the engine will still increase as the roots blower will still be transfering the greater pressure(density) air into the engine.

In any case (bypass, clutch, nothing) it should give a flat boost curve up until the centrfugal boost exceeds roots boost and then climb from there. This could make a 304 cu in motor run like a 500 cu in motor, with a vortech making boost above 4000 rpm.

Gary M.