Low Mount Turbos

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Instead of running it back to the engine... what about having a self contained system in the rear of the car... having a cooler, a pump, and maybe a reservoir? Avoids lots of plumbing and drilling the oil pan.
 
If you look ? You can see an electric oil pump return..
This can go back to rocker cover so there's NO need to drill sump for oil return.. It won't be worth doing anyway due to turbo's being at about the same level... The turbo's are generally the same size they would be if fitted in engine bay.. Maybe smaller exhaust trim ?? Same A.R...
 
I like the separate oil system idea. Allows for a reservoir and huge capacity (space is an issue) and lower temps on turbos more so than if the same oil was being used to cool the engine as well.
 

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A separated oil system for the turbo is a very nice idea, but room for the cooler and the reservoir is a limitation on the SC. Let's say if you put a big oil cooler in front of the radiator, it'll restrict the air coming to the radiator. And you can't really put anything in front of the intercooler. I'd think the oil pump can be under the car, the oil cooler can be behind the front bumper on the passenger side, and the reservoir can be behind the intercooler and in front of the radiator. If you intend to keep the A/C condensor, I don't think there's much room left besides this setup. :Eyecrazy:
 
Thats right, fender area/side bumper would accommodate a large cooler per side but would not get very good flow. A number of companies sell coolers with 12'' fans attached, I might go this route with my T-cooler... possibly dual coolers? Split the oil/tranny line to run into individual coolers on each inside fender area, more fluid for both coolers and lines to fill and lower temps. Could be good for limited space if separate cooler system could not work.

If I have an A/C condenser w/ 2 fans on front w/ radiator sandwiched between that and 2 14'' fans... how much cooling would I sacrifice if I sandwiched a large (24''w x 12''h) cooler with the 2, 14'' fans mounted on the back of that loose? I mean the heat exchange flows hot air basically into the engine bay/down to road and all this hot air is going to flow through the last cooler of the sandwich, the T-cooler, would it be worth while? here's a pic of a possible contender:

trans-cooler-with-fan.jpg
 
XR8tt said:
If you look ? You can see an electric oil pump return..
This can go back to rocker cover so there's NO need to drill sump for oil return.. It won't be worth doing anyway due to turbo's being at about the same level... The turbo's are generally the same size they would be if fitted in engine bay.. Maybe smaller exhaust trim ?? Same A.R...
Click to expand...


Yes with the 350z it does have the oil pump (which is an optional extra), but the others dont.

reading all of the diferent cars installation instructions the oil lines and cooler at the front is from the sump and std oil pump for the engine and not an oil pump for the turbos
 
They all require an electric pump to return oil if its lower than sump..
Or the seals in turbo will leak oil and have smokey exhaust.. They are not designed to have any pressure on them.. Even top mount can have issues when return line is restrictive..
Using oil from engine is much safer.. You could easy blow a fuse or issues with electric pump..
Btw in above pics the electric pump is used for oil return!!
Not to feed turbo... No need for oil cooling on these lines..
Just fit one to engine or bigger sump...
If water cooled ?? The cra doesn't get too hot anyway...
 
Lextreme said:
The only problem of electric oil pump. If it fails... you will have massive smoke and destroy your turbo seals.
Click to expand...
In less than 5 minutes...I'd say not just the seals, the whole bearing is gone for good. No lubrication at 60,000 RPM.

Actually the picture won't look that bad if backup plan is ready. A oil pressure gauge is needed. A LED indicator light is needed. If there's no voltage feeding, the light will turn on. Another alternative is a secondary electric pump. It should be installed inline with the 1st pump, but it's not turned on. If the 1st pump fails, then you can turn on the 2nd pump. The above are good insurance if I intend to run the standalone oil system for the turbo.
 
My brother designs and installs rear mount turbo systems, he has done a few on BA Falcons with the 5.4 modular motor, and a Harley Davidson F150, with the same motor. Unbelievable power from idle, his BA Fairmont Ghia, with the 3 valve motor, hasn't even had the rocker covers off, weighing around 1800kg +, ran 11.7 on street tyres, and has power from anywhere. Absolutely zero lag. Turbo is mounted under the rear seats.

He had to overcome oil issues at the beginning, but they are all fixed now. Oil in the line would seep past the seals in the turbo, when the car was parked for a few hours, causing a large oil plume on startup.

No problems now!
 
I think the biggest issue would be the oil return. The electric oil pump is rated at certain gallon per minute. This rate is pretty much constant and set by the maker of the pump. However, oil supply is veriable due to RPM dependent. At idle not much oil from the engine and massive oil flow during redline. Where to find a medium is the key.
 
Lextreme said:
I think the biggest issue would be the oil return. The electric oil pump is rated at certain gallon per minute. This rate is pretty much constant and set by the maker of the pump. However, oil supply is veriable due to RPM dependent. At idle not much oil from the engine and massive oil flow during redline. Where to find a medium is the key.
Click to expand...
That's true. I think the oil pump can actually fail if there's not enough oil feeding it. The same concept applies for fuel pump, water pump, and now oil pump?
 
yes but couldn't you run a vacuum diverter valve on the oil supply line after the pump's outlet? I mean when the turbo is slow... and doesn't need the oil and then when vac is disappearing the constant high speed pump "gradually" matches turbo speed? I think it could be done :yumyum:
 
The elect oil pump is used to return oil to sump.. They are self priming etc made just for this application..
So if it FAILS you only have a smokey exhaust..
It won't stuff your turbo or seals !!
Though at the time when it does happen you think you've stuffed up big time!! Yes I have fitted some to Boss engined Fords.. The kit was from APS... Same as above.. The guys at BTA in Sydney fit them on both Holdens and Fords..Opening the bonnet / hood you can hardly tell there's any mods...
 
Low mount turbos have many benefits. Reduced exhaust plumbing, reduced engine bay heat, lower center of gravity. Problems of course are oil return and sometimes adequete air capacity ducting to the inlets.

Electric oil return pumps are usually noisy (not good for luxury GT) and often suffer reliability problems.

I have kicked around a dual system for years in my mind (haven't built any so this is theory) using engine vacuum to pull oil back from turbo drains during off boost operation (the vast majority of time on a street car). This removes the noise and the wear on the needed electric pump to only times of actual boost. Using a reseviour under the turbos would possible eliminate pump operation when boosting is just for a few seconds.

Other than electric pumps there are also external belt driven scavenge pumps and some factory engines came equiped with external oil pumps that could be fitted.

Here are some pump links:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
oilpump343440.jpg

http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pump/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
page23_1.jpg


http://www.idex-hs.com/products/Brand.aspx?BrandID=7
 
John,

We discuss this topic almost 8 years ago. Wow how time fly. What do u think of an independent oil system. Here is what I think.

Turbos -->Oil pump-->Oil Cooler-->Oil reservior tank-->turbos.

If the electric pump dies, the whole system stop.
 
I actually purchased an exa pump like JBrady has. I haven't used it yet though, but I've heard really good reviews on it.
 
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