To turbo or to proceed with Natural Aspiration ????

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.

Drizt

New Member
Messages
91
Location
melbourne
Hey guys,
I have been doing plenty of research into the 1uzfe for a conversion i have planned (in 2 years time, when i have the money and turn 25 and insurance becomes a little less rediculous) but now i have come to a bit of a fork in the road. The question is weather or not to go with forced induction. I will try and give the scenario so everyone can make an informed decision.

PLEASE DON'T JUST SAY FORCED INDUCTION IS BETTER. GIVE REASONS FOR WHAT EVER YOU CHOOSE, AND BACK IT UP WITH FACTS NOT JUST HERESAY.

Reasons for modification
1). I want a small excellent handling modern car.
2). I want a V8
3). I just want to (steal that quote from HSV "I just want one"

The donor car:
200sx (S14)

donor car weighs:
1250kg (approximately)

I figure taking out the SR20 (i hear they weigh 150kgs) and transplanting a naturally aspirated 1UZFE will add approximately 50kgs to the front of the 200sx. Now this would alter the excellent handling of the car which is not something i want to do. So i could relocate the battery to the boot which SHOULD balance out the car. Battery weights approx 20kgs so moving it to the back should make the car close to 50:50 weight distribution again.

The modifications i would be doing:
1). 1UZFE + manual gearbox (hopefully a t56 if there is a bellhousing made for it, ill consult castlemain rod shop at some stage)
2). Aftermarket management.
3) Obviously exhaust.

Now to the delema (i cant spell sorry) :
The stock output of the 1uzfe is pretty pitiful somewhere around 120rwkW. So naturally i would want to embark on a mission to extract more power.

The OPTIONS
1). Work the engine, Cams, 8 throttle body manifold
i have been in contact with the company found in the website below and they are about to release some more information in a fortnights time.
www.1uzquadcam.co.nz
They have a rally car that is producing 345rwHP naturally aspirated. (They will be releasing more information very soon)
THE PRO's:
a). Being able to rev the car safely to 8000RPM and possibly beyond
b). Having no extra weight in the front of the car
THE CON's:
1). unsure ????

2). Have a exhaust company fabricate a twin turbo setup, and some intercooling ... now the cost on this is anyones guess. I would GUESS around $8,000 but i have no real idea.
THE PRO's:
a). Should be able to get around 450rwHP fairly easy
b). Should increase torque considerably, which is always good
THE CON's:
a). Increased weight in the front of the car. maybe another 50kgs ??? Again this is something i want to avoid. I want a great handling car.
b). Increased cost
c). The engine may need more work to be safely boosted (decompression possibly)


What does everyone else thinkl ?
If they were in this situation what would they choose ?
 
Answers

From my humble experience you already have the answers to most of your own questions.

As for the weight distribution, yeah, battery to the back, and maybe because I'm already leaning that way, dry sump it and put your reservoir there as well.

Tank piping and X amount of oil in the back will help to equal out the weight distribution.

Unfortunately this all comes at extra $$$$$$.

As for NA or FI we all know whats gonna give more but I guess it comes down to bang for buck.

Good luck

Peter
 
Thanks mate, all good info...

yeah the only thing that worries me about using a 1uzfe would be down low torque. From my experience they seem to lack the low down punch of the bigger V8s i have been in... i enjoy the top end revs in the 1uzfe but im hoping to have the best of both worlds....

Im trying to find out as much information as possible... at the moment it seems that forced induction would be a lot more expensive, but thats why im asking the questions. Trying to find out if the extra cost would be worth it in the end... How much power is too much for a daily driven car. I know the purist would say you can never have enough...
 
Dritz,

You stole my sign off!

Don't forget with any FI system it will add weight to the front of the car.

I am not a fan of turbo systems so will always say supercharge.

A good M90 and intercooler will weigh a minimum of 60KG.

If your car is light (1250 is light) I would go the NA route and get what I could out of it. 400 FWHP is easy and in a 1250kg vehicle is quite adaquate for day to day driving. For the same power to weight ratio an HSV GTO would need around 550FWHP.
 
Zuffen said:
Dritz,

You stole my sign off!

Don't forget with any FI system it will add weight to the front of the car.

I am not a fan of turbo systems so will always say supercharge.

A good M90 and intercooler will weigh a minimum of 60KG.

If your car is light (1250 is light) I would go the NA route and get what I could out of it. 400 FWHP is easy and in a 1250kg vehicle is quite adaquate for day to day driving. For the same power to weight ratio an HSV GTO would need around 550FWHP.
thanks again. Your reasoning is very similar to my own. Realistically i have been trying to convince myself that an NA 1uzfe will be powerfull enough. Just scared of a lack of torque.... hopefully the modifications will remedy that..
 
NA should be cool for this project. I suggest increasing displacement and getting light internals to get the rpms up or just scrap the toyota motor, save a bunch of $, gain relaibility, and get a chevy 350 crate motor.
 
If the Chev 350 is so reliable why are Holden Dealers busily rebuilding examples with less than 10,000K on the clock?

The Chev may give more power (on 35% more capacity) and cost more to buy but it certianly will NEVER outlast the 1UZ-FE.

The perenial argument of "power output" keeps raising it's head when we should all look at specific power output, or HP per litre/cubic inch.

Another couple of points to factor in are smoothness and fuel economy.
 
volvoguy said:
NA should be cool for this project. I suggest increasing displacement and getting light internals to get the rpms up or just scrap the toyota motor, save a bunch of $, gain relaibility, and get a chevy 350 crate motor.

.../delete/ban

a 350chev? in a 200SX? riiight, next thing you'll be telling me to swap my 1UZ for a 6cyl perkins diesel.

lets weigh that up huh?

1UZFE -

6 bolt mains caps, (4 into the block, 2 crossbolted)
oversupply of oil galleries
forged rods and crank.
all alloy webbed block
quad cams with scissor gear operation to eliminate backlash.
4 valves per cyl (at a marginal 21º angle).
symmetrical 2 piece inlet manifold design with a 70mm throttle body.
10.0:1 MINIMUM CR.
190kW from 4.0L.
can take 20psi on a std unopened engine.

BOWTIE BLOCK -

2 bolt mains caps
oversize oil galleries, but not enough = low oil pressure
cast rods and crank.
factory balanced using what looks like an angle grinder.
alloy block and head. minimal ribs or webbing.
single cam with pushrods and OHV (29º valve angle)
single row timing chain.
cast one piece inlet manifold - flow rate = 490CFM
8.2:1 CR for the later models.
225kw from 5.7L and only the later models.
i have seen one EFI 350 chev take 15psi for one quarter mile run before it popped.

reliability? you consider this combination reliable? maybe hauling pigs around on a tractor, but not for a performance engine. why do you think all the sports sedans are swapping their 350chevs for 2.0L turbo fourpots etc etc?

--------------------------

in answer to the original question, i would consider turbocharging or superchargng a std engine the option to pursue. leave everything as is (manifolds, timing etc) and retro fit a vortech or M90 or GT40 or T70 onto it and enjoy a reliable, MODERN and powerful combo.
 
GM 350s in all forms (327, 350, 383, 400, and ligenfelters 427) have been transplanted into everything from jaguars, to volvos, to miatas, to the datsun 240z, for decades. They are relativly inexpensive to make fast, and I can claim to thier reliability, 120k in a 3/4 ton suburban with no major work. Additionaly the 350 is a very simple motor when compared with the 1uzfe, and thereby cheaper and easier to repair. It is an incredibly versitile motor, powering, yes pighualing trucks, but dont forget corvettes and camaros. For this project a 350 would work very well, check out the broad torqueband on this zz4 fastburn http://www.high-performance-engines.com/ce04.html. Here are some conversion pics from JTR,
 
volvoguy said:
GM 350s in all forms (327, 350, 383, 400, and ligenfelters 427) have been transplanted into everything from jaguars, to volvos, to miatas, to the datsun 240z, for decades. They are relativly inexpensive to make fast, and I can claim to thier reliability, 120k in a 3/4 ton suburban with no major work. Additionaly the 350 is a very simple motor when compared with the 1uzfe, and thereby cheaper and easier to repair. It is an incredibly versitile motor, powering, yes pighualing trucks, but dont forget corvettes and camaros. For this project a 350 would work very well, check out the broad torqueband on this zz4 fastburn http://www.high-performance-engines.com/ce04.html. Here are some conversion pics from JTR,

volvos have the suspension to take a heavier engine. they understeer like crazy (i know, i drive an 82 244DL) and they have awesome brakes. a V8 into one of these is a lot different than a 200SX.

350s in 240Zs is another story again. why anyone would take a bulletproof engine like an L series sixpot and swap it for a 350 is beyond me. a 240Z is setup for handling and does so very well - for the age of the vehicle.
now, i'm not bagging this swap at all, because the 350 is only marginally heavier than the L series six anyways - but putting a majority of the weight behind the front axle line instead of 50/50 over it. but the choice of engine is a poor one at that. ever driven a manual L series six? they're sweet thing and they keep the flavour of the original car.

there's a lot more to driving a car than low down torque and automatics to take advantage of it. why spend a motza on lightweight internal parts when you could buy something more modern that already has it? and with more features? and is more fuel efficient? and is lighter for better handling?

sure the LS1 is a great engine in std and modified form - albeit still has it's rather-hard-to-ignore pitfalls, but add a bit of FI to a standard 1UZ and watch the gap close fast.

all out of 4.0L.
 
It strikes me that Volvoguy threw you a line, and you all bit like a barracuda. Anyone that puts his location as "asshole" is not worth talking to and shouldn't be allowed on this forum.
 
I made a valid argument that for this topic, a chevy 350 NA, would be a good choice. In zz4 form It will give you the power of a mild turbo setup without the cost and complexity associated with FI. I have no loyalty to the motor, I drive a tundra 2uzfe and very much want to twin turbo. Duece, if you cant make a decent argument as to why you feel I am wrong like many others have, dont resort to adhominum attacks to degrade my argument.
 
volvoguy has a valid argument.

The LS1 can give as much and lots more power than the 1UZ-FE. I would venture you would get 100,000 miles out of a 500hp 1UZ but I doubt too many people would ever see that out of the LS1.

I think we all need to accept some of us look forward and some of us look back.
 
sorry, but i don't accept it at all. just as it is someone's right to an opinion to say it, it is also my right to be opinionated about said opinion.

you're welcome to head over to an LS1 forum if you feel that's your calling. the rest of us will keep "looking forward".
 


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