Interest In Aftermarket Intake w/ horsepower gains

[bigdaddeywalt]

I'm in the process of making a quantity of intakes that we tested on my car and although many will not believe jumped from a stock of 170 hp, 178tq to 197 hp to 214 tq. I will be posting pics pretty soon, I will be supplying the intake and you will have to get the SAFC-II to tweak it very minimal, but for these gains, its very well worth it. Again if anybody is interested please email me at [email protected]. I am aware that aftermarket intake have been tested and provide no horsepower but the prototype I made has been proven on the dyno. I will post pics very soon.

 

[turboandrew]

How do we know the gains are not becuase of just the SAFC? It's very doubtful you picked up 17 HP because of an intake filter & tube. It's very likely a fuel lean out can pick up 17 HP (I've seen that on many Toyota motors).

 

[bigdaddeywalt]

because I dynoed the car one month ago and had the safcII installed already, the air fuel ratio was good across the board with the stock MAF and the tuner said there was no need to tweak the safcII. Trust me it was shocking to see the gains when we dynoed the car last night and the only upgrade we've done is the intake.

 

[Peewee]

17hp from an intake? I dont think so.

Even if you saw a 17hp difference in power from one dyno to the other, doesn't mean there was a 17hp gain.

For starters you dyno'd them a month apart. Even if you dyno'd them one after the other you still can't really compare the results.

If Toyota could have picked up 17hp from a simple intake design change, they would have.

Comparing a stock intake with a new filter (and a decent quality filter, not a cheap one), to a custom intake you'll be lucky to see 3-5hp

 

[Zuffen]

To try and sell these units on this Site you will need to show back to back (same day, same dyno, same engine) figures and post the dyno sheets.

If you're claiming 17hp this needs to be on a bog stock engine or you need to carefully and fully disclose what modifications had been done.

17rwhp is about 22-23flhp. That basically 10%.

The Moderators will keep an eye on it.

 

[bigdaddeywalt]

no problem, i know the motor is bone stock with stock sc400 headers, the only modification was the exhaust, but I got the 170hp from the same setup, with no extra mods i custom made an intake whic was remove the sensor off the stock housing and installed it in a 3" aluminum pipe. As you well know with the SRT intake kit you gain 22hp on the GS400. I did both dyno pulls at SRT, SRT does not make an intake kit for the older 1uzfe motors. SRT does not print out dyno sheets but if anyone knows them you can call Kellen and speak to him. For the people to say you cannot get that hp from an intake has not done it yet. I only speak from experience and figured we can make these kits available for the public. Like I said forthose who are interested can let me know. For the non believers, youre welcome to call Kellen at SRT. Thanks

 

[turboandrew]

http://www.swiftracing.com/vehicles/lexus/gs/intake_gs400.htm

SRT clearly state that their air filter gains come only with AFR modifications. It looks like they do this by increasing the size of the tube around the hot wire sensor (but not sure). Why would you think an earlier gen motor, with far less HP to begin with, would benefit so much from just an air filter and no AFR changes?

Believe me I want to accept that it's true (and for the record I don't think you are trying to lie to us) , but I have seen this too many times. Dynos, or really, dyno operators can make mistakes, all too often in their favor.

 

[bigdaddeywalt]

thanks turbo, its not just an air filter, i gotta find my camera to take pics and show you guys what was done, as a matter of fact, the safcII was on corrected by 3% richer at 5200 rpms, so this kit will work without the safcII. Im going to do another swap of this motor into another 85 corolla and we'll try iton that car since i dont have a stock ls400 car, is there a ls400 in maryland that would like to see it or even test it on their car to see if theres an improvement to test it? Im just posting facts that was proven at the SRT dyno to where i did both pulls in the same dyno with the same car and engine, and it gain 27hp not 17 hp. Maybe the gains will not be exact in every car, but you can bet you will get alot more than 3-5hp as stated above. I just would like to know if people on this board would be interested. Mo from SRT saw the gains for himself.

 

[Damien]

Nothing wrong with trying different mods but with all of Toyotas R&D and highly skilled engineers, how could they have missed what you've found?

If you mean you've replaced the stock intake tube which has the resonant chamber attached and fitted a smooth pipe, then there have been dyno runs here in Australia which show that setup will actually LOSE power. If you mean something else pics would be great.

Have a read of this too:
http://planetsoarer.com/resonator/resonator.html

 

[Lextreme II]

thanks turbo, its not just an air filter, i gotta find my camera to take pics and show you guys what was done, as a matter of fact, the safcII was on corrected by 3% richer at 5200 rpms, so this kit will work without the safcII. Im going to do another swap of this motor into another 85 corolla and we'll try iton that car since i dont have a stock ls400 car, is there a ls400 in maryland that would like to see it or even test it on their car to see if theres an improvement to test it? Im just posting facts that was proven at the SRT dyno to where i did both pulls in the same dyno with the same car and engine, and it gain 27hp not 17 hp. Maybe the gains will not be exact in every car, but you can bet you will get alot more than 3-5hp as stated above. I just would like to know if people on this board would be interested. Mo from SRT saw the gains for himself.

First of all, welcome to this forum. As you know we have one of most well informed members in the whole world about the Lexus-Toyota V8 motors. I can accept your claims if you can produce 6 dyno charts.

I need three different runs three pre and three different runs on post intake. If the three (total of 6 runs) demonstrate the changes as you stated above. I and others have no problem with your claim. We will average all three pre rwhp and average the three post dyno and we can get a clear picture of the gain. If you are up to the challenge, then we can talk.

 

[bigdaddeywalt]

thanx lex, I will do that a litte later of course, i will talk to Mo from SRT and see when we can set it up. and of course pics will come soon, thanks for the feedback. We'll keep in touch.

 

[Brad Bedell]

If Toyota could have picked up 17hp from a simple intake design change, they would have.

Nothing wrong with trying different mods but with all of Toyotas R&D and highly skilled engineers, how could they have missed what you've found?

Those statements are more unbelieveable than anything on this thread... There are proven 25-35 HP available in a different exhaust/ manifold/header design. On a production scale, it would have been pennies difference to design a proper exhaust manifold and exhaust system that picked up more power. Hell, for that matter, head porting, intake manifold, tuning, ignition can all be improved. Toyota engineers may have found it, but accounting and design/packaging criteria won out in the end.

 

[Damien]

We're talking about changing a cheap length of intake tubing. Please keep it in context.

 

[Peewee]

Those statements are more unbelieveable than anything on this thread... There are proven 25-35 HP available in a different exhaust/ manifold/header design.

Toyota designed the headers like that because they were building it to fit in an engine bay (and yes, a price).

Try and fit LS400 or SC400 headers in a UZS131 Crown, you'll find it won't fit.

Try put LS400 headers on an SC400, you'll find it won't fit.

Change LS400 headers for a set of tuned extractors, and low and behold, you'll pick up very little horsepower. Nothing like the 25-35 you state, because the LS400 headers flow VERY well for a stock item.

All the other headers were built around an engine bay design.



EDIT: Oh, and please note the word 'simple' in my statement a few posts up.
Changing the design of headers is not what I'd call 'simple'.
Changing the design/shape of a simple intake pipe is what I'd call 'simple'

 

[Brad Bedell]

We're talking about changing a cheap length of intake tubing. Please keep it in context.

I am... I picked up 14hp at the wheels just a few days ago by changing a 6" long piece of tubing in my intake. (A very disappointing 257rwhp if you are wondering) If Toyota engineers only needed 200hp, why would they keep spending money looking for more? While I do see your point, I suspect this is one of those cases where "good enough" is the enemy of perfection.

Also, great read on the resonators article. Gives me something else to do next time I'm strapped to the dyno and need a quick plasma cutter and tig project. I just did a brief scan, but didn't see any mention of the resonator shape or location, have you found any information confirming if it matters or not?


Peewee: I also mentioned exhaust in there.

-B

 

[turboandrew]

I agree toyota did leave HP, lots of it, on the table. They did this for a number of reasons, packaging, reliability, etc. I think the problem here is that changing a simple length of tubing has far more influence then simply increasing airflow. If you are changing the diameter of the tubing around the mass air sensor, you are changing the signal that tells the ECU how much air is coming in. You end up leaning out the engine, which if not done to an extreme, usually boosts HP by quite a bit. I believe this is what's happening here. Toyota always runs a very conservative AFR (rich) to be safe. Leaning from 11.5 to ~13.5 can have significant gains. The dyno sheets did not have AFRs listed (very odd for a reputable shop), so I can't confirm this (and honestly I am not willing to believe what the dyno operator said happended). I would not be surprised if you somehow mounted a stock, brand new air filter on the upgraded pipe, you would get the same HP. BTW, pictures of the intake/engine available?? Would be nice to see what we are talking about.

 

[bigdaddeywalt]

turboandrew- the afr did not show the car running lean, it was 12.5 across the board at WOT. Ive been bust getting the car ready for the NOPI event in May 20th, I'm going to have to get my bros camera since i cannot find mine. But like I said what I did was get a 3" aluminum pipe, weld on the MAF sensor adaptor, and welded an aluminum plate inside to mock the stock MAF. Ive spoken to SRT to get another chance to do the six pulls as Lex suggested, but I believe that even with these 6 pulls and the pulls show a great difference, the interest will be low. I will take pics of how mine was done and people can do the same if they please. I wouldnt waste my time to post this thread up to rob anyone from their hard earned money. And as for toyota engineers..... if they knew it all no one or no company would make aftermarket parts to show gains. TRD makes aftermarket parts to be conservative and safe to keep their warranty issues. They are people in here who say the 1uzfe cannot hold FI power because the internals are weak, they are few but enough people not even on this board who have done great hp on stock internals. Sometimes you got to be open minded and try things for yourself and dont go by one person says. The article that was written about the 3.5" intake pipe being a loss of power was his experience and my experience was different. When I first did my dyno pull on my corolla i used stock intake pipe and stock MAF and got 170hp, 178tq, i then installed a 3.5" 90 degree elbow with 3.5" 45 degree pipe then the stock MAF and got 178hp,185tq. Once again that was done at SRT, in which Mo saw the gain and was impressed just with that mod. WIll many people believe me?, probably not because one person has done it and seen a loss in hp.Now I modified the MAF to fit in a 3" pipe and jumped to 197hp, 214tq. My experience doesnt prove me wrong. I saw it and have done it. Once again MO was there and saw it and was impressed. Fellas thanks for yall time and keep up the good work, and always try different things to make this motor more better than what it is.