thinking out load..112 manifold

[zen]

see the above inlet manifold..thats how i wish to do mine..

spent 2hrs last night,blower next to engine wondering how to mount it WITHOUT spending $1000's on aftermarket manifold that wont fit my jag 112 anyway..

so with measure in hand looks like has to sit in traditional place and stick out of hood a bity..no problem can live with that..also allows me to plumb the lpg lines down into the valves..

think easiest/cheapest way is to keep bottom manifold and build a "shoe box" that bolts on top of b.m. and mount sc on top of that..

now..thinking to myself ali for the box would be nice..but i dont weld ali..shite hot with steel so...
a)pay someone to make box..expensive and not in the i did all this myself thingy i have going.
b)buy tig and learn to weld ali..is it easy or really not.it needs to look good.
c)prefered option in steel....do it myself then..can anyone see any down sides to steel (except the weight)..i guess 6mm plate for base and top with 3mm sides..(40-50mm high)..

thoughts??(should this be in fab section? not sure)

oh did have a wild idea about running sc on inner wing (4x4 remember) powered up by hyraulics.then can vary boost and have a "clutch" at any rpm (to a point)..totally feasiable (trucks at work use this, though not running a sc)..£1000+ for suitable motor and pump though..shame

 

[Zuffen]

If you want to make your own I would suggest getting rid of the lower manifold (you can sell it off) and making a complete manifold out of steel.

This would lower the overall height and allow you to build in an intercooler core of some description.

If you have a look at Ford Lightning manifods you can see how you can drop the bottom of the manifold until it just clears the starter motor and gain some height.

The worst part of the Toyota inlet system is the lower manifold so get rid of it if at all possible.

The hardest thing you have to face is ensuring the supercharger is parrallel with the crank in both horizontal and verticle axis.

 

[markstoys]

If you want to make your own I would suggest getting rid of the lower manifold (you can sell it off) and making a complete manifold out of steel.

This would lower the overall height and allow you to build in an intercooler core of some description.

The hardest thing you have to face is ensuring the supercharger is parrallel with the crank in both horizontal and verticle axis.

I agree. You should build an entire manifold.

Here is a pic of mine. You can see how much lower it is--and there is still room for an intercooler core inside. Without an intercooler it could have been lower.




I don't know why intakes are always made out of aluminum, but because I used the flanges (where the intake bolts to the head) and they are aluminum, I hade to make the rest using aluminum.

Mark

 

[zen]

The hardest thing you have to face is ensuring the supercharger is parrallel with the crank in both horizontal and verticle axis.

not kidding..thats why i was just gonna build on top half of manifold..

i agree complete would be best, but then fabing up will take me ages,(not too much spare time ,what with wife,little girl and 2 jobs..to get this done asap i need either to go top half only.(and ignoring the downsides, i dought i will notice the few extra hp being lost to be honest..or learn to weld ali and use the existing lower manifold to head part of the lower manifold.)

 

[ruishy1]

for quickness, just do what superrunner has done, im at college learning to tig, and have just started doing alloy, so will be making mine in a few weeks, ive got the top and bottom plates ordered, a ford 1.8td intercooler to use as a charge cooler and some bar to use as spacers.
if i can get somewhere to work on my car i reckon i could have it running in 4 weeks

 

[zen]

please see post in fabrication

 

[ruishy1]

ummm, what post :S

 

[zen]

its there now..computer crashed

mark...do you have any photos of manifold?how did you include charge cooler?

look really trying to avoid doing this the hard way..but am leaning towards buying a tig and learning to ali weld...bugger..

sorry for all these questions, still give it a while and i will be in a postion to help others doing the same..

 

[markstoys]

look really trying to avoid doing this the hard way..

Well, there is the easy way and the RIGHT way.

I have surprisingly few pictures of my intake (it was actually one of the simpler items I fabbed for this car, so I guess I didn't think much of it at the time).

Here is what I have, I made mine from 3/8" plate. And I didn't TIG this. I took it to work and did it with the push-pull wirefeeder. My machine at home can't do 3/8", plus it was much faster than TIG.

This one shows the clearance for the starter, which has been removed--but you get the idea.






This one shows where the intercooler core is going to go--kind of. It is all the space above in intake port. I welded a ledge all the way around the inside for the core to sit on.


In this shot you see the shelf the core will sit on. It will get pushed down, so it sits just above the intake ports, although as you see it now it is pulled all the way to the top. It's not a very good picture, but it's all I have.


Hope these help.

Mark

 

[zen]

thank you...excuse my ignorance...that looks like an oil cooler next to final pic...is that how you doing charge cooler?? cos i like that if it is...

ok..mig welding ali...not tried it..have decent welding machine at work...maybe time to try it out..argon gas.ali wire.maybe new wire feed spools..did you pre heat the ali or weld cold?

 

[markstoys]

thank you...excuse my ignorance...that looks like an oil cooler next to final pic...is that how you doing charge cooler?? cos i like that if it is...

ok..mig welding ali...not tried it..have decent welding machine at work...maybe time to try it out..argon gas.ali wire.maybe new wire feed spools..did you pre heat the ali or weld cold?

Yes, I plan on using that oil cooler to cool the intake charge. Again, I have not put it in yet. I fired the car up and it is currently running without it.

You must preheat if you are going to MIG, otherwise your start will be way too cold. But you have to balance how hot you run the MIG and how much you preheat, because your part will get so hot that you will start to melt thru really bad.

Mark

 

[zen]

si i assume one preheats then quickly brushes down (stainless brush) to remove oxides you have just put there by preheating?or is that not required?


how bad are the uz lower manifolds anyway...?they don't look tooo bad.i mean..toyota spent $milloions develpoping the engine,surley they are long for a reason (intake tracks)?
could it be to improve low end torque, ascthey were proberly not to concerned about top end power as the japs seem to have a gentlemans agreement not to produce engines with more than 275hp..(even been stated on "top gear",and have read this more than once..)
if so, then the sc will overcome this problem,i agree i wont get absoulte max top end power with it used,but i am not after that,but low end torque (though of course top end whoose is nice)
now looking at everyones sc manifolds (richmond etc)they look to be inefficent at anything off boost and down at low rpm as they are basically just a box with holes in them,no tummpets, curves etc..
so..would not a box placed upon toyota lower manifold be prehaps better at lower rpm's,giving that the air wwill be speeding up travelling down them long thin tracks??

ok..still have the height problem of course using it..

what you thinkj?

 

[zen]

re mig welding ali..hows one deal with any oxide on wire,lets say its been in mig a little while in cold damp england?think i need to learn ..

re manifold...if i learn ali welding there is a major downside...and that is all the other projects i can do!..ie well why not go the whole hog ?go get the matching charge coolers for the jag m112 i have and adapt them to fit by making a complete manifold (just using the toyoa head to manifold flanges)

a whole new tin of wormsbig wiggly worms eating at my pocket and time..

 

[ruishy1]

i was going to do the chargecooler things mate, infact i have the complete jag setup here
But its a shed load of work to do, its a very long setup and will be difficult to fit, but can be done if you have the time and money, im doing it once i have enough cash for the ac dc tig and a spare engine

 

[SuperRunner]

the problem with getting rid of the lower runners is warping.

I had to re-do my flanges due to excessive warping. Warping presents a HUGE problem with a V setup. First you have front to back on each side, then you have up-down on each side, then you have the distance between left and right bank, and then the left and right bank have to be completely parallel at a 90 angles from each other.

I even bolted everything down and it still warped when I un-bolted it. I tried to plate it out on a belt sander, but getting the sides parallel to each other was almost impossible. Then if you shave off too much material the distance between the two bank will be two narrow.

Using the entire stock lower runner will have almost no difference in air CFM vs just cutting off the bottom section and welding. It is the bottom section that is the most restrictive part. Then the only way to get around that is to do extensive head porting and open up the head before opening up the intake runners will give any improvement.


If you don't mind the hight, I can fab up a box for you, I purchased extra material just for this.

 

[ruishy1]

you should do this mate, i know of a few people who would go for one

 

[zen]

thanks for the offer superrunner..if you have a bypass valve and short 112 snout though!!?

depending upon time, (and availability of metal tomorow morning) i will have the box made by tomorrow evening, except for the lid having the hole cut in it for sc..and hole for bypass valve as i dont have one..and the final facing off in the machine shop..

thats the plan anyway.steel...to mate to lower manifold..ok sc will exit though hood.but not by too much..my other range rover has a 2inch scoop out of bonnet anyway to keep everything cool..

curious, the vac feed to brake servo, from the boosted box..?(via one way valve?)also need a vac feed to the diff lock...whats the best way here?i use vac pumps on the diesels..

gonna need feeds from boosted box to...boost gauge.bypass valve.fuel regulator.pressure sensor for lpg ecu.pressure sensor for lpg vaporiser and no dought others that escape my memory for now..oh and 8 inputs to feed the lpg pipes down the tracks,though with i may install them into the lower manifold.

have i forgotten anything?proberly

 

[SuperRunner]

you won't have a problem with the brake booster.

Your diff lock on the other hand, you can always just install a vacuum canister.

 

[markstoys]

the problem with getting rid of the lower runners is warping.

I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of warping I had on mine. I was really worried about it, because everything SuperRunner said about the intake mating to the heads is absolutely correct. I don't know if I got lucky with my preheat/welding sequence or what, but when I was done, it fit very nicely.

Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Zen,

Take your vacuum feed from between the throttle body and supercharger intake.

This will give you excellent vaccum without the risk of blowing the one way valve and your power booster with it.

If you do this you diff lock will work off the vacuum as well.

I used a 2 litre swirl tank today as a vacuum tank but any solid alloy or steel tank will suffice.

You can get away with one vac/boost outlet from the manifold and just run it into a small 1" diameter manifold for all the other fittings. This means you only have 1 line to give you grief on the manifold and also lets you place the smaller manifold wherever you want it.