Project Thread Supercharged Supra

[turboandrew]

That's a really nice looking wiring harness. Is it long enough to reach to the engine? Are the wires labeled?

 

[cribbj]

Andrew, no he made it only 2m long as per my request, but he can make them any length to order, and no the wires aren't labeled.

In retrospect, if someone wanted to build a custom 1UZ harness from scratch, this would be the way to go, and have maybe 3m of loose fly lead. But then you'd need all the rest of the OEM connectors, along with the pin & sleeve terminals that go with them, etc.

 

[cribbj]

T minus 8

The Shurflo pump arrived today; man I had no idea these things were so huge! I put it next to the dialysis pump and they're nearly the same size:






I bought this pump from the super folks at http://www.systemacc.com/catalog/index.php. This pump is supposed to be configured with a 150 psi on/off pressure switch, and I told them I really wanted an internal bypass, set to 150 psi. They couldn't do this, but they removed the on/off pressure switch, discounted the price and sold me an external bypass pressure regulator. Very cool folks to do business with, and of course everything was in stock, and I had the pump in two days.

Today, I hooked up a single expresso pump to a Snow purple nozzle, which is supposedly rated at 225 ml/min flow. I measured its flow and it was bang on 225 ml/min at a pressure between 60-80 psi. Tomorrow I'm going to have a go at hooking the two expresso pumps in parallel and see how that goes.

Here's a video of the single pump spraying:

 

[JustenGT8]

hey John,
Yeah looks about the same as my 120psi pump. Mine just has the on/off switch so pulses away but doesn't see to present any probs.

How was the mist? you want it so fine you can't feel it which sems to take over 100psi in my experience. Remember you'll lose pressure by whatever boost level you intend to run so your 60psi to atm will drop to 45psi at 15psi boost.

 

[cribbj]

Hey Justen; the mist felt like a very dense fog, but I do think I need more pressure, which is why I'm going to try the 2nd pump in parallel with the first tomorrow. I would think with two pumps trying to push twice as much water through this nozzle, the pressure ought to go up substantially.

Did you see the video in the last post? I was kinda surprised how "gentle" the mist was. I guess I was expecting it to come roaring out of the nozzle - maybe not like a fire hose, but certainly a little more pronounced than it did.

 

[Lextreme II]

Justen and John,

I dont want to detour this thread, but what do u guys think have a 1600 cc injector acts as meth/water injection? I have a Split Second ECU that will control one extra injector and one M/W injector too.

 

[cribbj]

David, I'm no expert on this stuff, but those who have gone before, and apparently know what they're talking about don't recommend using fuel injectors with water injection.

Have a read of this page: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

It's long but interesting, and there's a water injection calculator at the end. If you don't want to fool with reading the whole article, just do a search for "injector" and the 2nd or 3rd hit should bring you to the paragraphs of their experience using fuel injectors in water injection systems.

BTW, they use an expresso pump in their system too, but it's an Ulka brand, where mine is Fluid-O-Tech. I compared the curves of the two, and felt mine was better suited. It's also a 70w pump where the Ulka is only 41w.

 

[Lextreme II]

Looks like its workable but slightly delay in respond.

A technical point about the delivery of the water is that we do not attempt to modulate, pulse or otherwise try to modify the flow of the water through the nozzles. In the labor intensive systems, where we used actual fuel injectors, the response time of the injectors was around 1.6 milliseconds before linear flow could be predicted. By using actual fuel injectors we could precisely pulse the water flow with controllability down to a fraction of a millisecond. It was a very short term solution. It was absolute in its control, but it was far from practical.

 

[JBrady]

Have a read of this page: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

John, good link.

Here is another definitely worth looking at.

These are the guys that ECS uses for their customer. ECS (East Coast Supercharging) has an excellent rep with the FI croud at Corvette Forums.

http://home.att.net/~alkycontrol/pac.htm

BTW, I liked the following image from your link. Reminds me of so many people.

"I Don’t Want To Learn...Just Give Me The Answers!"

 

[cribbj]

T minus 6

I ran some tests today with the dual expresso pumps and the Shurflo.

The dual expresso pumps did a good job and pumped out around 400ml/min @ 130-135 psi. When I had the reservoir positioned lower than the pumps, the discharge pressure would drop to 130 psi, however when the reservoir was higher than the pumps, the discharge would go to 135-140 psi. I was a little surprised these pumps didn't make it to 175 psi, but it must mean the nozzle is still a bit big. I'm going to drop one nozzle size and see if I can't get the pressure up a bit to improve the atomisation.

I rigged up a pressure regulator on the Shurflo where I could vary its output delivery from 150 to 175 psi and it put out 300 ml/min @ 150-175 psi. It wasn't very stable at 175 and sounded like it was cavitating. It wouldn't "lift" liquid very well either; while it was pumping at 150 psi, I moved the reservoir about 2' below the pump, and its discharge dropped off to zero! Not encouraging, although it had a nicer looking discharge mist than the pair of expresso pumps. Too bad about the Shurflo's inability to lift liquid 'cause it sure would be a more simple setup than the expresso pumps. I'm going to hold off deciding which setup I want to use until I can see how both will respond to PWM'ing their outputs.

I'll put some video up of the two expresso pumps, and the Shuflo tomorrow morning.

 

[JustenGT8]

My surflow setup is gravity fed John. 300cc/min will be boderline for you but better than nothin.

If you drop a nozzle size you will lose vol

 

[cribbj]

T minus 1!

I haven't posted in the last couple days because I've been covered up chasing parts and wiring the motor. Justen if you liked my last ghetto carb setup, you'll really get a kick out of this one.

Nothing but wire nuts and 3M T taps, baby, and no loom at all. This is about as ghetto as it gets!

The guys at the builders' shop have continually taken the p*ss out of me over this mess, but it's functional, and at least everything is exposed and easy to troubleshoot.

About 100 terminations into this mess, I was having to remind myself every 5 minutes why fuel injection is so much better than carburetion, 'cause it sure is a PITA to wire up.....

Anyway, it's done now, and we're moving the motor onto the dyno today, to be ready for Mitch's arrival tomorrow.

 

[JustenGT8]

Still looks tough Cribbster

losing the dissy's really tidies the engine up

 

[cribbj]

losing the dissy's really tidies the engine up

ROTFLMAO!!

 

[cribbj]

D-Day!

The engine is now mounted on the dyno, and this morning Dennis and his team will be tending to the final hookups of fuel, coolant, exhaust. We also found that the Tundra COP's aren't "gripping" my ghetto plug extenders well, so rather than add more layers of tape to the extenders, Dennis is going to fab a couple of hold down brackets from flat bar for the coils. These ought to fit right in with the current ghetto theme.

Mitch should be arriving from LA around lunchtime with an ECU, a spare WB controller, spare UEGO and MAP sensors, and other goodies. If the boy makes it through LAX and IAH security with all that, it'll be a minor miracle.

On a related topic, the other day, I was fooling with my Shurflo 150psi pump, and discovered a few interesting things:

1) When you deadhead this pump into a nozzle without a regulator, it'll produce well over 250 psi, and the 12v, 12a motor will draw over 40 amperes. The internal bypass valve is supposed to limit the pressure to 150psi maximum, however it doesn't (at least not in my case)

2) Shurflo rate their plastic pump housings for 250psi, maximum, for a very good reason......

So, ahem, after a change of underwear, and the arrival of a new pump casing, along with a pressure regulator, I did some further testing into a Snow purple (225ml/min) nozzle, and this combo produced 400ml/min @ 180-200psi, with 6.5-7.2 amps draw. What a mist, too! Here's a video I uploaded of it. I'm not sure what to make of the "spitting" droplets coming out the near side of the nozzle. Perhaps I'm overdriving the thing, or I've got some clogging going on? Could very well be clogging as I must admit I haven't been too careful with filtration so far:

 

[cribbj]

Friday was a "comme si, comme ca" day as the French would say.

We got everything finalised on the dyno; Mitch functionally checked all the I/O, and found my wiring checked out, except for the coils; I'd apparently transposed the pins for the IGT and IGF signals. (Note to Erol: I must not have had my bifocals on when I did that one )

Also found my new AEM WB O2 controller board wasn't putting out "quite" the right signal, so Mitch used the spare he brought to get the gains adjusted.

We then test fired all the injectors without fuel in the rail. Mitch fired them individually, while I listened with a shade tree mechanic's stethoscope (long screwdriver, touching the injector, and held to the ear). All sounded good except for #1, which sounded weak, but I could still hear it firing, so we continued.

Before turning the motor over, I rigged up my new spare Shurflo pump on the lube oil system, and used it to prelube the motor. The motor hasn't been run since the last dyno session, which was 4 months ago, so we wanted to get some oil in the bearings.

Next, we cranked the motor without fuel and synced the static timing of the motor to the AEM, which went well. We then turned the fuel on, fixed a few leaks, and set the fuel pressure to 43 psi static.

We noticed we weren't building any oil pressure with the engine oil pump during the timing sync process, so Dennis popped off the discharge hose from the pump, and we spun the motor again until we had oil coming out of the pump. Apparently there was some trapped air in the system as we built good oil pressure after this.

Unfortunately, the motor didn't want to spin freely afterward, and acted like it had fuel in the cylinders, so we pulled the plugs out and sure enough, 1 & 3 were wet, so that weakness I heard with #1 apparently was real, and we have at least one bad injector. This is really disappointing, because although these injectors are used, they were cleaned and tested. Since it was already after 6 PM in CDT on a Friday evening, I decided to try to find some injectors on the West coast before they shutdown for the weekend.

Got on the phone to RC Engineering, who were very pleasant, but not very helpful at all and said they couldn't possibly ship me any injectors before Monday, because it was already 4:15 PM in California and they would be closing in 45 minutes. Wow, thanks RC; I know who NOT to call in the future. Betcha if I was working for TRD or another big name tuning shop, it would have been different......

Then I called Bruce Holt of Five-O-Motorsports, who has given me great service for the 1-2 little orders I sent him for injector clips, and he confirmed he had the injectors in stock and could overnight 4 of them to me to have them Saturday morning. Now here's a little guy, trying to build his business the "right" way, so I ordered the injectors from him, and he will definitely be getting "all" my injector related business in the future.

So this morning we're going to pull the rail and injectors on the left bank, and see what's going on with them. Aside from that glitch, we're ready to fire the motor up.

Having Mitch here is great; on the way from the airport to Dennis' shop he plugged in his laptop, tweaked the AEM running the 2JZ in my Supra, and had an idle stability issue sorted out in 20 minutes. He is definitely "THE MAN" with the AEM.

 

[Lextreme II]

Despite the issues. Looks like you didnt sleep much last night. I guess you were too excited...... to see the monster waking up....

 

[cribbj]

Definitely! Hoping we can get the issues sorted out today and fire it up.

 

[JBrady]

Best laid plans...

Sounds like you are definitely benifiting from Mitch's visit.

I am looking forward to seeing your creation run tonight!

 

[mycarhasposessedme]

Damn, sounds like you had an uninvited guest there also (the infamous Mr Murphy).
Hope all goes well today.
Cheers
Trev.