2JZGTE coilpacks?!?!?

[Death By Bass]

my coilpacks are pretty much dead.

car still runs, but its showing all the signs of having failing coilpacks (compared to other peoples experiences)

I'm looking to run different coils, with spark plug leads, mounted in a more remote location.

the question is, how can I decide what some suitable coils would be?

I was considering coils from an RB30, and using six.

the input resistance seems to measure about 1.2ohms on these, while the 2JZ coil packs measure 0.8ohms.

should I just get a bunch of second hand RB30 coils, and try it out?

thanks for any help!!!

 

[cribbj]

2JZ-GTE coilpacks are the COP (coil on plug) type, so if you're wanting to run individual coilpacks, but mount them remotely, they're not the right choice.

You want a CNP (coil near plug) type of coil, and there's lots of choices for these. Probably the best and most economical are the LSx coilpacks from GM.

But.... are you still running the stock ECU and distributors? If so then they've gotta go first because to run 8 individual coils in waste spark, you need 4 individual ignition trigger signals coming from the ECU, which you don't have.

Having said that, I seem to remember someone in the last six months talking about a converter box that allows you to run individual coils, and keep the stock ECU. Don't know if I'm remembering or just imagining this, however......

 

[Lextreme II]

It was me.....

 

[Death By Bass]

sorry for the confusion.

I have a 2JZGTE with half dead coil packs!

I'm looking to replace them with something remotely mounted so they aren't effected by the engines heat.

the LS1 coils have inbuilt igniters, which isn't what I want.

 

[cribbj]

Ahh, OK, it's clearer now. So presumably you want to keep the 2JZ-GTE's igniter also? IMO, by getting rid of the 2JZ-GTE COP's, you're downgrading your ignition system, but that's your choice.

The Chrysler 300 COP's "I think" can be converted to CNP by just pulling off their extender boots, and adapting secondary leads to them. They're also "dumb" type coils, so they require an external igniter, like the 2JZ COP's. Don't know if the 2JZ igniter will play well with these, however, but it might be worth a try. They only cost a third as much as the 2JZ COP's.

Most of the other CNP "coilpacks" on the market either have integrated igniters, or they're already wired internally for waste spark, neither of which will work for you. For example, the Ford EDIS6 or Bosch 6 tower coil packs would seem to be ideal, however in reality, they both only have three coils inside, and each coil has two secondaries for waste spark output. (BTW, the 2JZ-GTE igniter does not like to be wired up for waste spark - that just opens up a new Pandora's Box of problems.)

I have a sample of one of these Chrysler coils and will have a look at it later and get you some pics if you like?

 

[Death By Bass]

Ahh, OK, it's clearer now. So presumably you want to keep the 2JZ-GTE's igniter also? IMO, by getting rid of the 2JZ-GTE COP's, you're downgrading your ignition system, but that's your choice.

its hardly a down grade if the coils currently in the car don't work

and a replacement set will cost like $600, and die again in about 10 years time.

what is waste spark?

all I planned to do, was get six separate coils, possibly the Bosch BIC800, modify the loom in the car, and run six spark plug leads to six separate coils.

 

[cribbj]

What you're saying should work, if you can find 6, single ended Bosch coils. The pics I found of the Bosch BIC style coils show them to be double ended (waste spark) style. If you ran six of these, you'd have to plug off the 2nd HV connectors on each coil.

A better choice might be six Bosch MEC type coils. They come in two configurations, the MEC718 on the left with the male HV connection, and the MEC717 on the right with the female HV connection.

Waste spark is where you can run a six cylinder engine on only three ignition outputs, or three double ended coils (like the BIC's) Each of these coils sparks two complementary cylinders which are 360 degrees apart in their firing. So you get one spark where it's supposed to be (on compression stroke) and another spark which is "wasted" on the exhaust stroke.

 

[cjsupra90]

That first coil (BIC) is a typical GM DIS coil. They are cheap and readily avalible (at least here in the states) and a simple wire from the second terminal to ground works quite well when running them on a singe cylinder setup...

 

[cribbj]

Chris, are those outputs isolated from each other with HV diodes? I'd have thought they were common, so that if you shorted one to ground, you'd short them both?

 

[cjsupra90]

No, they are Dioded and a completed circuit. or atleast from my understanding they are (i.e. they both have to be connected for it to fire)... Shorting one does not short both, it completes the curcuit.

The attached images is how I usually bench test a typical GM dual tower coil using a standard GM distributar mounted control module and an old distrubiter with a drill to spin it. The plugs dont need to be grounded as long as the coil is bolted to the system ground... I haven't been able to find an actual circuit diagram for those coils so I dont truly know how they are wired. I used to do it with two plugs and HT leeds, but now I do it with just paper clips as you can see in the second picture...

Also in the past I had a friends RX-7 that I had installed a Electromotive TEC3 system on it and it used a 6cylinder pack type assembly with 3 of those coils. The 1st coil went to the leading Plugs (one tower to each) and the remaining two coils had to have one terminal going to a trailing plug and the other terminal wired to ground or the trailing side would not fire......

Next time I can through together a bench test set up, I'll have to try to remember and take a video of it

 

[Death By Bass]

so... ah... anyway...

I was considering using the BIC800, which is whats used on the RB30.

its a single output coil.

but I'm not sure about the resistance.

 

[Death By Bass]

does anyone know anything about the 2JZGTE coil packs?

my primary resistance measures 0.8ohms on each coil..

however, the two coils I have sitting here, neither measure anything on the secondary :S

any help? lol

 

[Death By Bass]

is it possible for the secondary to be open circuit, but still produce a spark due to it arching the break in the winding?

 

[cribbj]

does anyone know anything about the 2JZGTE coil packs?

my primary resistance measures 0.8ohms on each coil..

however, the two coils I have sitting here, neither measure anything on the secondary :S

any help? lol

There are high voltage blocking diodes on the secondaries so they can't be tested.

It states something to that effect in the Supra Factory Service Manual.

 

[Death By Bass]

There are high voltage blocking diodes on the secondaries so they can't be tested.

It states something to that effect in the Supra Factory Service Manual.

that will just mean you can only test it one polarity, not that you won't be able to test it at all...

how am I supposed to test these then?

I got a quote for a set of six brand new... $AU1309.80

awesome! :wtf1:

 

[cribbj]

Well, you can believe whatever you want.

Here's the diagnostic procedure for the 2JZ-GTE's ignition coils, cut & pasted from the Supra's factory service manual. Good luck.

 

[Death By Bass]

yeah, my primaries measure 0.8ohms, but it doesn't mean the secondaries are intact...

the car is now idling properly, Im running out of ideas as to what the problem is..

I still think it has to be coil packs!

 

[cribbj]

This is an ancient problem with Supra coil packs; you just can't test them with normal equipment, and it's why you find so many used ones for sale on SF and elsewhere in "perfect" shape.

What we "have" found is that the electrical connectors on the harness side degrade to the point where they're brittle, and falling apart, so most of us buy new shells, and the other plastic bits, and rebuild them.

Another thing we do is to beg/borrow/steal a known good coilpack from a mate, then substitute it, one at a time for each cylinder to see if the problem improves. This procedure doesn't help much, if you have more than one weak coilpack, however.

Next step is to borrow a known set of good coilpacks from someone who doesn't have an idle problem, and see if that fixes it, then start substituting until you find the bad one(s).

Bad idle can be dirty injectors, an IACV that's plugged, dirty, or not working smoothly, coils, plugs, a leaky PCV, a vacuum leak, etc.

I'd probably start with a Seafoam treatment, and a new PCV valve, and then work my way down the list.

 

[Death By Bass]

I've replaced the coil pack plugs as they had fallen apart, tested and adjusted the TPS, removed and cleaned the IACV, swapped the plugs for new ones, swapped the MAP sensor for a known good one, put injector cleaner through it twice, checked the PCV. Also, a faulty primary results in an ECU code, and the car going into limp home mode It doesn't seem to have any vacuum leaks, and the symptoms wouldn't only suggest this...

the car doesn't always idle properly, but sometimes it sits perfectly on 750rpm, in gear, out of gear, air con on, air con off, the IACV does its job.

but! the car also misses at wot under load, and the check engine light comes on for maybe 5 seconds, then goes off...

the car will keep accellerating, but nowhere near as hard as it used to.. feels like its running on 4 cylinders.

I'm seriously just considering buying these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160248225907&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

the primary connector is the same as the 2JZ, so everything will plug straight in, but I'm not sure if they'll physically fit under the cover on the 2JZ

apparently the 1MZ-FE also came with a 6 coil setup, does anyone know the part numbers for these coils? or are they simply the 2JZ coils?

thanks!

 

[Death By Bass]

ended up buying original, genuine 2JZ coil packs, from the USA... about $AU850 including postage..

and then, to make things better, the car got defected over easter, before the coil packs even arrived, now I have to take the car for a full inspection, meaning basically everything has to be removed!

rip the tint off, remove turbo timer, raise car, probably stock wheels, blah blah blah :S

isn't it wonderful!