Standalone ECU AEM EMS driving UZ's

[Boosted2.0]

Just a hint for the guys going AEM on boosted motors. It is WAY easier to tune your fuel curve if you use a 2D fuel map with boost comp and throttle comp. The 2D map winds up basically beign the VE curve of the motor. the Boost comp map is a straight line from 0 Bar to 1 Bar with it adding 0% at 0 PSI and 100% and 1 Bar. 200% at 2 BAR etc. Continue the line down to the left so that its at -100% at -1 BAR.

You then take the throttle comp map and use it to trim fuel below 40 % throttle - usually winding up at about 35% - 40% trim at fully closed and slowly curving up to 40-50% throttle where you are fueling at 100%.

Set it up like that and then set your main fuel map to fuel the same up the whole column for each RPM regardless of load. You will be able to dial in your fuel curve in like 6-10 pulls at the most.

 

[cribbj]

Anyone heard about running a MoTeC ignition expander from the AEM to get true sequential spark?

Steffan from the NL mentioned this recently on the AEM board, and I've just sent Mitch an email about it. Anyone else know something?

 

[Boosted2.0]

Nope - never heard of it. If you want to use it with the DIS coil packs from the Toyota it will need to have a 12V trigger, not a ground trigger.

 

[cribbj]

Heard back from Mitch, and apparently it's true. It involves using three existing ignition outputs to provide the output address that should be fired, ie in the case of the 1UZ, 000 would be cylinder 1, and 111 would be cylinder 8.

Then it's to find the old style MoTeC ignition expander, or another 1 to 8 demux, or build one.

Mitch is also leaving AEM after today. That's a big loss; hopefully he'll stay around here and check in once in awhile.

 

[mauioo7]

you can also use AEM twin fire 8 channel DI module. then you can run 8 coils if you like.

 

[Boosted2.0]

I double-checked my numbers with a scope. The DIS coils are a 4-5 V positive signal on IGT, not a 12v positive signal.

 

[Red Supra]

I wonder where Mitch is going? Maybe following Jason is he.

 

[cribbj]

Max, he said he's thinking about writing a book on tuning & EMS, but where he's going or what he's going to do for a day job, he didn't say. A very knowledgeable and helpful EMS guy, that's for sure.

Maui007, do you know if AEM finally got their twin-fire ignition sorted out? That product has been a disaster from day 1. Also, I really can't tell from their product description if it's a waste spark system or not? Being able to fire 8 coils doesn't necessarily mean the system isn't still waste spark. I just finished dynoing my motor with 8 Supra COP's and a pair of Ford EDIS8's, but it's still a waste spark system because it's firing each coil on both compression and exhaust strokes.

Boosted, the Supra coils seemed to run fine from the Ford EDIS8 system with a ground/negative side trigger. I didn't have a scope available, so I just wired it up and tried it.

 

[mauioo7]

hey cribbj, well, does AEM has their twin-fire sorted out? i got 4 bad ones in the pass 4 years. it's funny i have one here right now that has to back to AEM for alittle TLC. all of the others(10-15 in the pass 5 years) seems to work ok. is the twin-fire wasted spark? you can hook it up as both. if you standalone is set up to fire sequential (8 coils w/ 8 coil drivers) then it will fire squential. when it it use w/ an AEM on an engine w/ more than 4 cylinders it will have to be wasted spark. because the AEM only has 5 coil drivers. i have a friend running F-con V pro w/ a 8 channel twin-fire and six MSD coils squential on a RB26, also a 2UZ MOTEC w/ a 8 channel twin-frie running sequential. so it's how you set up in your standalone. hopes this helps.

 

[Boosted2.0]

Max, he said he's thinking about writing a book on tuning & EMS, but where he's going or what he's going to do for a day job, he didn't say. A very knowledgeable and helpful EMS guy, that's for sure.

Maui007, do you know if AEM finally got their twin-fire ignition sorted out? That product has been a disaster from day 1. Also, I really can't tell from their product description if it's a waste spark system or not? Being able to fire 8 coils doesn't necessarily mean the system isn't still waste spark. I just finished dynoing my motor with 8 Supra COP's and a pair of Ford EDIS8's, but it's still a waste spark system because it's firing each coil on both compression and exhaust strokes.

Boosted, the Supra coils seemed to run fine from the Ford EDIS8 system with a ground/negative side trigger. I didn't have a scope available, so I just wired it up and tried it.

That may be - I've never checked a Supra- its different from pretty much everything else. The vehicles I have checked were a Celica and Prius with the new gen COP. In both cases the stock ECU was sending a 4-5V positive trigger.

 

[cribbj]

That may be - I've never checked a Supra- its different from pretty much everything else. The vehicles I have checked were a Celica and Prius with the new gen COP. In both cases the stock ECU was sending a 4-5V positive trigger.

Ahh OK, you were referring to the signal from the ECU to a coil with integral ignitor. Come to think of it you did mention IGT in your previous post. I was running 2 wire Supra coils which require an external ignitor, and which is a part of the EDIS box.

BTW, if you haven't seen this thread, it's an interesting one for the COP enthusiasts: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2754

 

[Boosted2.0]

The current gen of COP is great stuff. Totally stock ignition on the 2ZZ Celica motors is still going strong at 665 WHP at over 30 PSI of boost on a GT35R

 

[SuperRunner]

You guys going to post your cal file? I will be hooking up my AEM to my Motorhome just for fun.

 

[MitchP]

Yes, I'm still here. I am no longer an AEM employee in order to take some time to write a book on engine tuning and engine management systems. In addition to that, I now have much more time to work on my own projects, such as getting my 92 SC400 running on an AEM EMS among other things.

And, on that note I have good news. I finally have my 92 SC400 running on a 30-1100 AEM EMS. I still have to hook up a MAP sensor, O2's and get the trans sorted but the engine runs smoothly on all 8 cylinders. The car has a completely stock '92 powertrain except for the EMS, a custom made CAI, and the rear mufflers replaced with aluminum straight pipes. (rear axle flanges back) No wiring or hardware changes have been made to the car.

Here's a link to a vid of it on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JStHJlTp9qk

I will be working on it more this week and will give updates as I get everything sorted out.

 

[Lextreme II]

I am highly interested in your AEM. Give us more details.

 

[MitchP]

It ended being a lot easier than I had thought, at least this far though, as not everything is tested yet.

The 30-1100 EMS itself is only slightly modified. (takes about 5-10 minutes but will void your warrenty) The 1UZ has 0-5V falling edge IGT signals and the 2JZ-GTE IGT signals are 0-5V rising edge so the 6 inverting transistors were removed. Then, the two igntion channels going to pins 56B and 57B (IGT1 and IGT2 on '92 1UZ) were bypassed where the transistors were so the igntion signals will go out to the harness connector. Other AEM EMS's (like a 30-1050) have jumpers to do this but unfortunately not the 30-1100, so the soldering iron had to come out.

The rest is setting up the calibration correctly. The cam/crank timing pattern is the same as the 2JZ so that's unchanged. The only major things changed are that the two coil outputs are setup to run like twin distributed Hondas offset by 90 crank degrees and then the injectors are setup to run batch instead of sequentially off of four injector outputs.

So far, these are working: Idle control, tach, TPS, AIT, CLT, Fuel Pump, shifter (calibration differs from supra though), O/D and ECT switches, coils, injectors, main relay and the CEL. I still need to do more testing and calibration work to get the auto tranny and everything else confirmed working.

If your '95's harness is the same, it should be just as easy to get one on it, otherwise there may be more EMS mods required to get the connector I/O in the right spots along with any required calibration changes. Newer VVTi engines are also possible as the EMS can run dual cam timing control.

I know the LS ECU connectors are different but a jumper harness could solve that issue.

If you have the pinouts or schematics of either I can look and see what it would take to get things going.

 

[Lextreme II]

I am in Socal too. Perhaps we can get together and do your magic in my car. Twin T04S 60-1 with 8 1000 cc and need something to control. I have a 1995 SC400 and I am sure its same as the SC400.

 

[cribbj]

Hey Mitch good to see you back here and glad to hear the good news about your car, but why did you go batch fire on the injectors? There are enough injector drivers in the AEM to have made it fully sequential, right?

Were you trying to keep from modding the harness, and keep it PnP 'cause the early 1UZ's were fired in pairs?

 

[MitchP]

I was in the midst of emailing you when you replied.

Yes, the EMS can run 8 injector sequentially but I'm trying to avoid any mods to the vehicle until I get everything working correctly which means keeping the batch injectors for now; it will be sequential in the future.

I'm going to do a dyno shootout between the stock ECU and the EMS and post the results and calibration here before I start changing any hardware. That way, there's a common starting point for anyone else planing on running an AEM.

Also, the car is my daily driver right now so I wanted to keep it easy to go back to stock while I get things worked out.

 

[cribbj]

The AEM has been a great ECU for the Supra, and since the SC shares the same ECU connector, it should be nearly PnP for that platform too.

With Jason Siebels & Co just about to bring the ProEFI ECU on the market, there will probably soon be a number of used Supra AEM's on the market, which will have very attractive prices.

If anyone is thinking of going standalone it might be wise to hold off just awhile longer and watch for these used Supra ECU's to hit the market. It's possible that if enough people are trying to sell them in order to move up market to the ProEFI, they could dip well below $1000. This would be a great value.

Then since Mitch is developing the mods & maps for the AEM to run on his SC, it should be just about a PnP proposition once he's finished.