Toyota V12

[cowboy bebop]

the 1uz will get you 4.7L with stock bore in race trim. If you increase the bore to 94mm, like with the 2uz, the displacement jumps to 5.5L. The engine builders that I work with bore the 2uz out further to reach 5.65L.

Here's the link to pics of the internals.

http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4904

Thanks man,

 

[cribbj]

I'm not sure what the point would be of putting one in since there are 5.65L stroker kits out for the SCs, and it comes in a much more compact form than an ungainly V12.

Having a V12 badge on the back of the Supra and listening to the music coming from 12 intake trumpets is enough of a point for me. But then I'm getting a little spoiled and eccentric in my old age, and I want one of each. :veryhappy

John

 

[Peewee]

I honestly couldnt think of anything worse than 5.65L 1UZ.

I'd MUCH rather a 5L V12

 

[cribbj]

I'm building a blown 4.0l 1UZ for one car, but am trying to rationalise building a close cousin to the motor in this pic for the other car. My motor is an M73, which is a SOHC 5.4l V12. Sorta gets the juices going just to look at it, eh? Just too many interesting money pits to pour $$$ into. If I can swing this project, I'll do a diary of it here on lextreme.

The V12's are pretty compact; being a 60 degree design instead of 90 like the V8's helps with manifolding, and as someone already pointed out, since the SC and Supra engine bays are already designed for the width of the UZ V8 and the length of the 2JZ inline sixes, a V12 "should" squeeze in OK if it doesn't get too tall. The problem of course is the ITB's and their trumpets, but those can be accommodated by doing them horizontally in a cross ram arrangement, which is better for tuning anyway.

 

[Peewee]

Errr, thats a DOHC V12

 

[superlex1]

Man thats an awesome looking motor

 

[cribbj]

Errr, thats a DOHC V12

Hehe, Peewee I didn't say it was the same motor, just a cousin. They both are descended from the same BMW V12 design, although the McLaren folks might dispute/deny that.

This motor is an older "brother" to mine - it's an M70 which presently lives in Jay Esterer's Ultima in Edmonton Alberta. Jay kept the dizzies and the intake plenums, both of which I plan to dispose of.

 

[Lextreme II]

John... one word... BEAUTIFUL and very unique engine for your Supra. I am little afraid of support and parts.... Where would be buy parts replacement?

 

[KazeSupra]

To be honest, other than manifolding, I don't think (other than the fact that you would need to support 4 more cylinders) that you couldn't find parts for it. I already talked to crower and they can do custom rods for anything for a decent price. We already know where to get pistons, as we had to search for the UZ engines anyway (Ross or JE). The crank is probably a forged steel crank, just like most of toyota engines, so it would be easy to just balance and polish it just like a V8. The hardest part I would think would be making either TT or NA exhaust manifolds, porting the heads, or making intake plenums or ITBs for the setup, IMO. AND, the best part, is that it's all aluminum, so I would bet money that it weighs as much or just barely more than a JZ block (because the JZ block is iron, but there are twice the components in the V12). Don't know about the length, but I'm sure that it's the same length as the JZ motors. NA motor with 11.5:1 compression...9.0:1 with twin turbos for me, thank you...in a Supra...mmm...

 

[cribbj]

David, the normal wear & tear stuff like the timing chain, oil & water pumps will be BMW. The main & rod bearings will stay BMW too, along with the rods and crank, but the rest will be pretty much custom made, just like what we've been doing with the 1UZ. Unfortunately, the whole top end of the motor needs to be redone so it can breathe up to 7000 RPM, because BMW never envisioned this motor needing to rev above 5500.

That DOHC McLaren motor is really a work of art isn't it? Imagine what a kick it would be to open your hood each morning and see that beast sitting in there. I don't know that I'd even drive it very much; I'd probably just stand there and gawk at it, and start it once in awhile.

My apologies for the thread drift, this is a BMW V12, not the Toyota V12, but I thought I'd share it.

John

 

[cribbj]

Here's a nice shot of some horizontal ITB's on a V8. These obviously have some custom 135 degree shorty runners, but with the BMW motor, I plan to adapt the ITB's to the existing "finger" runners so they would be setup in cross-ram fashion, ie the ITB's on the left side of the motor would feed the right bank, and vice versa.

 

[KazeSupra]

that's sweet.

 

[Anaema]

Here's a nice shot of some horizontal ITB's on a V8. These obviously have some custom 135 degree shorty runners, but with the BMW motor, I plan to adapt the ITB's to the existing "finger" runners so they would be setup in cross-ram fashion, ie the ITB's on the left side of the motor would feed the right bank, and vice versa.

thats a really shitty place to put fuel injectors.

 

[turboandrew]

For fuel mixing there is no better place then right after the throttle. Air going past the thottle at part throttle is near sonic speed, and fuel gets mixed up extremely well. The only improvement I could see would be the have the throttle very close the the valve, and not have all that bendy curvey runners, but rather a straight shot into the intake port.

 

[cribbj]

BTW, here are some vids of Jay's engine & car. IMHO there's nothing sweeter than the sound of a V12, unless it's a V12 with ITB's, open trumpets and a nice Borla exhaust. :veryhappy

http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0163.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0164.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0165.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0417.avi


"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines" - Enzo Ferrari

 

[KazeSupra]

wow...crazy...

 

[MWP]

For fuel mixing there is no better place then right after the throttle. Air going past the thottle at part throttle is near sonic speed, and fuel gets mixed up extremely well. The only improvement I could see would be the have the throttle very close the the valve, and not have all that bendy curvey runners, but rather a straight shot into the intake port.

It is actually better to squirt the fuel onto the back of the closed intake valve rather than straight into the combustion chamber.

When sprayed onto the back of a closed valve, the fuel evaporates instantly.
Cant get better attomisation than that.

This is the main reason why sequential injector timing was adopted, youll find all factory cars are setup with the timing to do this.

 

[Anaema]

For fuel mixing there is no better place then right after the throttle. Air going past the thottle at part throttle is near sonic speed, and fuel gets mixed up extremely well. The only improvement I could see would be the have the throttle very close the the valve, and not have all that bendy curvey runners, but rather a straight shot into the intake port.

true, but fuel being injected in the intake manifold/runners slows it down. not to mention that huge bent doesnt do the engine any good.

 

[makaveli200369]

Sorry to bring back an Old thread..but what kind of car is that? Is it an Ultima GTR?

BTW, here are some vids of Jay's engine & car. IMHO there's nothing sweeter than the sound of a V12, unless it's a V12 with ITB's, open trumpets and a nice Borla exhaust. :veryhappy

http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0163.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0164.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0165.avi
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/mvi_0417.avi


"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines" - Enzo Ferrari

 

[cribbj]

Yes it's an Ultima GTR; the story goes that Jay wanted something as close as possible to the McLaren F1, since none of those were for sale.

Since the McLaren engineers used an Ultima GTR as their mule for the F1 development, Jay reckoned that was his best bet. But he didn't want a Detroit dinosaur SBC in such an advanced car for obvious reasons, so he set about to redesign the chassis to accept the BMW M70 V12 (which was also the predecessor to the McLaren's S70B56 motor)

Here's the S70B56 motor for the F1 McLaren: