Stumped on what Turbo's to use!

[ToranaJudd]

This is a re-post seing as the other post did the David Copperfield last night and vanished! If anyone has the information fomr the old post feel free to add it in a reply to this one, but thats probably a long shot! Here i go! I am aiming in the vincinity for having 800ish flywheel horsepower out of my 1UZFE. I have basically found a setup i think that can handle but most importantly will be able to comply with this power. My only problem is Turbo selection. Before people go all out and say single T88 or what not i will say this, i have thought long and hard about this, talking to mates etc and want to go 2 equal sized twins in the standad twin setup. Also if people think my engine setup will handle more than 800HP let me know as i am happy to let this combo punch out what ever it can and will buy turbochargers accordingly. I was very much inspired by MAAJOLA's 960. This figure want me to make 1000hp! But might be a little un realistic for my setup. But here goes, this is what i have/will have done to the engine:

- Forged Ross 8.5:1 CR Pistons With the upgraded Tapered wall Gudgeon pins[AKA Lextreme Group Purchase]
- Forged ArgoRace Connecting Rods Capable of 200HP per rod [AKA Zuffens Group Purchase thru Lextreme]
- Extensive porting of the intake ports in the heads and runners and mild exhaust porting [casting cleanup].
- Possibly Oversized Valves, Not sure if needed yet, Any Suggestions
- Stainless OR Titanium Valves.
- Double or Triple valve spring setup.
- Standalone ECU. Got my sites on AEM or possibly Haltech E11V2 .
- Upgraded fuel Rails In Y patter rather than tradition U pattern, Capable of 1000HP
- I am thinking of running 800cc injectors as they are 1024hp capable at 80% Duty Cycle. Maybe i should drop back to 700cc ???
- Modified intake manifold similar to the Top Secret on being made by JDMFantasy Unsure if i want to attemp this yet, what are the standard manifold good for ? 600hp? more? P.S. JDM Please make me one :veryhappy
- Kelfords 207-T2 cams [ SPECS ]
- All ARP connecting hardware, AKA head studs, rod bolts etc.
- CRS/Hadfield Sump. May even cut it up some more for extra capacity. Still considering.
- Will not be running A/C compressor, power steering pump, Either make Idler pullies or a shorter belt if possible.


**********************************************************
Now onto Turbo's!!! The fun part!!!

Have been looking into Garrett turbo chargers and have come across this carger and would like your thoughts on Spool RPM, Boost Capability, and HP producabilaty.

- GT3071R [ EBAY ] [ SPECS ]

Turbine
-Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim
-Housing: .63 ar, .82 ar, 1.06 ar
- [ MAPS ]

Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim
-Housing: .50 ar
- [ MAPS ]

Whats everyones thoughts on this turbo?

Cheers, Judd

 

[Toysrme]

With a big enoguh torque convertor you can do a lot of big singles without lagging all the way down the track.
A pair of GT30s is fine for the power you were looking to lay originally (70-800bhp).
I would be looking more at a GT35R with an .82 A/R turbine housing, or a pair of newer Holeset HX35's. You can go bigger at will as well, but I think a pair of GT30's, or 35 equivilant turbo's would be peachy.


I would probably shy away from the large amount of T4 turbo's out there. Tho many of them will more than do what you're asking them to do.

 

[ToranaJudd]

More info...

This combo will be going thru a R154 gearbox then a single peice talishaft out to a ford 9inch with 3.25 LSD. 28 spline axles and 15inch wheels with 50/60series rubber. Would this change your decission? When you say a GT30, do you mean the turbo i am talking about or a 3030 [30 turbine 30 compressor]. I would have thought that 2 GT35R's would be to big and woul;d not spool until like 4ooorpm!

Cheers, Judd.

 

[turbotwig]

Two GT3076Rs would be a great match for your power goals. Depending on how high you spin the motor (my quick calculation used 7000rpm), you can get 800hp (~44lb/min) out of two GT3076R's with between 2.8-3.2 pressure ratio (~27psi to ~32psi) on the compressor. This does not account for losses in the charge plumbing and a few other effects. 700hp would be no sweat. Check out http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT30/GT3076R_700382_12.htm for more info. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the GT3071R for your particular power goal. The lug line would end up pretty close to the choke line at that mass flow and PR. This is the kind of setup that would be pretty altitude dependent, so if you're at any higher altitude your match will almost certainly change. There is no reason to go to a GT3582R as you wont even max out the GT3076. If your setup were just right, you could come close to making 900 with two GT3076Rs (at ~38psi). All of these quick calcs would require some substantial charge cooling to survive for even a short amount of time.

Start with the 1.06 A/R turbine so you don't blow up the engine on an overboost. If you need more turbine power (if it's too "laggy"), then order up a set of the 0.82 A/R housings. With that much mass flow on a GT3076R you will most likely need the 1.06 A/R housing to accomodate the mass flow.

Upping the displacement is probably the simplest way to drop your boost requirement to hit your power target. This will help get your back into a more agreeable part of the maps. For example, going up to a 5.0L will allow you to drop down to a PR of 2.5 [22psi] (vs. a PR of 3.1 [31psi]). There are a bunch of "what displacement can I get?" threads on this forum, I suggest you check them out.

If anyone is wondering were these numbers come from, check out http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html .

-Kirk

 

[Lextreme II]

Kirk,

Nice work. I am doing a project myself and its very similar to Judd. I will be using the 4.7 iron (2UZFE) block from the Tundra. I am debating between GT30R or GT35R. My hp goal is to have 1000 rwhp. Which turbos and specs would you recommend?

 

[JDMfantasy]

I would think a pair of GT3071's would do the trick quite nicely.
Flow 53 lb/min and capable of close to 500 hp a piece. Dual ball bearing for silly spool up and pretty cheap too at $1,150.

And yes, were working on a Top Secret 1UZ manifold!

 

[JDMfantasy]

Ha, just re-read your post and saw that the GT30-71R was your top choice, looks like you've done your homework!

 

[turbotwig]

Well, what I said was I think the GT3076R is probably a better choice for the power goals that he listed.

As for your goals, Lextreme, the GT3582R will just barely get you where you want to go. Two GT4088Rs may even be necessary, but still don't necessarily match that well either. The problem is that the mass flow and pressure ratio required puts the compressor right in the upper right hand crook of each map. If you can take out the motor to a 5L or 5.5L the goal is much easier to achieve (lower boost!). You're probably going to have to open up the heads a good amount to get them to flow enough to make this kind of juice. It will also help a great deal if you can get it to turn out to 7500+.

A better idea would be a single GT55. The PR range for those is more like 4.0:1 or 4.5:1. at the mass flow you need. I'm looking for the maps to double check, but it may take me a few hours.

At 4.7L with semi-reasonable assumptions, you're going to need a PR of between 3.0 and 3.5, depending on how the semi-reasonable assumptions work out. At those kinds of PRs, you're also going to need one hell of an intercooler setup to bring back the charge density. Garrett makes very good air-water cores that can handle those kinds of duties.

Frankly, if you're looking to make that kind of power out of a 4.0L, it is generally easier to add a 100 or 200 shot of nitrous. Not only does it help squeak out that last bit of power, but it's extremely effective at dropping charge temps. Just an idea.

-Kirk

 

[turbotwig]

I just looked up the GT5518 maps... and it's basically perfect for making 1000hp with the 4.7L. You'll need approximately 110 lb/min (.813kg/sec) @ a PR of ~3.5 (~37psi).

The quick match was using the following parameters:
Hp 1000
A/F 12
BSFC 0.55 hp/(lb*hr)
Wa 110.00 lb/min (0.8316kg/sec)

R 639.6
Tm 175 F
VE 0.92
N 6500 rpm
Vd 4.7 L
MAP 52.10 psi
PR 3.54
Boost 37.40 psi

It also puts the lug line right through the max efficiency island, which is a big improvement over the twin combinations I was talking about before.

If you were feeling nutty, you might be able to get the GT55 out to 1200hp (on gasoline!) with close to 48psi of boost. Now THAT would take some rediculous charge cooling and some serious octane!!! :bigeyes:

-Kirk

***EDIT: KEEP READING BELOW, I'M AN IDIOT***

 

[Lextreme II]

Wow.. GT55.... that would be too big physically. I think the dual GT35R will get somewhere near my hp goal. GT55 would be (almost) impossible to fit under the hood of a SC400.

 

[turbotwig]

Like I said, twin GT3582Rs with some nitrous would make the 1000hp, and you might even be able to package it! Actually, if you were to use a 200 shot of nitrous, then I'd go with the twin GT3076Rs like I said before.

-Kirk

 

[JDMfantasy]

I was going by his 800 flywheel hp goal, perhaps more if the turbo's could handle it, which It looks as if they'd be able to. 2 x 53 lb/min is 106 lb/min, pretty close to the 110 required for the GT55.
I wouldn't hesitate going with a pair of the .76's either as you mentioned.

Does anyone know which turbo's Maajola's running? I haven't read through the entire post, so if it says in there my bad.

 

[turbotwig]

Ha ha. Just kidding. I ****** up. :sorry: I was looking at an 118mm diesel wheel, not the 133mm Garrett aftermarket offering for the GT5533. If you did a choke side overspeed on a GT4202R you might be able so squeak out the 1000, but certainly into the 900s. I appologize and retract my previous statements about GT55s. At the biggest you'ld have to go to a GT45 if you went the single route. You'ld never get a GT55 to spool up until WAY high up in RPM with a 4.0L.

-Kirk

 

[turbotwig]

I got my hands on a GT45 compressor map yesterday, and it is a damn good match for making 1000 hp with a 4L 1UZFE. Just a heads up.

-Kirk

 

[Turbo4L]

As for running twin GT35R's, thats really big!
if you option them with the 1.06 exhaust housing their rated at 700hp each.

 

[turbotwig]

Do the math and you'll see what I'm talking about. The mass flow and pressure ratio required to make 1000hp with a 4L 1UZFE on gasoline are what they are.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html

I'm not sure where you're getting the 700hp number from... to make 700hp with a GT35 you'ld have to have either a rediculously low BSFC (as in you'ld burn down the motor), a rediculously rich air/fuel ratio (your BSFC's would then be way too high if you were that rich), or run on something other than gasoline (like ethanol, methanol, etc). The numbers don't lie. The 60lb/min on the GT35 is more likely going to make 550-600 hp on gasoline, depending on the actual realistic air/fuel ratio and realistic BSFC for a boosted engine. For your reference, a BSFC of .55 and air/fuel of 12:1 are realistic numbers for a motor like this.

Keep in mind that the GT35 can only flow the 60lb/min at a certain range of pressure ratios. If your engine size is such that to get the mass flow required you need more or less pressure ratio, then you can't make that power with that turbo. That's the juggling act you're up against in turbo selection... you have to size a turbo that gives you the mass flow you need to make a certain amount of power while at a pressure ratio that is in the operating range of the compressor. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? This is extremely important!

I would recommend you use Garrett's turbo 103 technical article to size your turbo, not the "recommended power ratings".

-Kirk