oil pump for turbo

[WDoherty]

saw sts turbo today

So, i saw my first sts turbo system in the life today. It was mounted upon an otherwise stock looking ls1 camaro on my campus (Texas Tech), even had stock rims. I hope to figure out who has it, and if they are willing to give a fellow tech student a ride. That recaptured my interest, and after some resurfing of the sts site and others, it seems that their company and applications have really taken off. Universal kits are also available for the do it yourselfer, but can be mimicked much cheaper for the hardcore. Anyhow here is a link from an outside source who installed a kit with an impression of driving and dyno results. This remote mount system seems to work, here are a couple of links: (one of these even has horsepower chart at varying rpm to illustrate low rpm spooling) http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0411phr_sts/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0502_turbo/
and of course the sts site itself: http://www.ststurbo.com/
Although i think i'm selling the sc400 and going sc300 na-t route (partially cause i hate slushboxes) someone could replicate this kit without as much work and problems<--- (don't quote me on that) as a normal installation and put down 280-300 rwhp on a low boost, stock engine sc400 (kinda based on what the sts tundra made) or whatever your 1uz is in. Any interest in this subject, i think cost could be really low i.e. no intercooler, expensive turbo manifolds etc. Plus no trying to custom fabricate and fit stuff under the hood without deleting stuff.

 

[Toysrme]

There are lots of oil pumps out you can use. When I did mine, I drilled out a used Denso fuel pump & used that. That worked for a good few months until I un-turbo'ed. I would suggest buying one of those oil scavange pumps tho...

It's easy. Build yourself a good Y-pipe, throw the cat away & mount the turbo tightly tucked into where the cat sits. Mounting & piping problems = solved.




EGT's are so stupid. Some retard, decades ago said it mattered. The fact of tha matter is the EGT with regards to spooling a turbo is the biggest line of bullshit with regards to spooling a turbo, well ever really...

The turbo spools off the pressure difference created before the turbine. Preiod. That has next to nothing to do with the temperature of the exhaust flowing through it.




















If EGT's mattered, it would be benifitial to put a turbo on a manifold, and they would never be used when they cuoldn't be mounted directly on said manifold.


7m-gte's with a stock CT26a:
@ 14psi
(k&n fipk, lexus afm, 2.25" ic hardpipes, ss t-bolt clamps, hks ssqv, ams big ic, 550cc injectors, walbro high pressure fuel pump (12V constant), trd afpr, fuel line restriction bypassed, -8AN fuel line inlet, FPD bypassed, ported stock turbo elbow, full 3" exhaust (ams dp meets mohler-mod and some of custom work in for good measure), no cat, 3" ss thermal research straight thru muffler, permacool e-fan, lotek a-pillar w/autometer boost and egt guages, autometer water temp and fuel pressure mounted where ashray used to be, defi speed/tach heads up display, hks safr, rps stage 3 clutch, 11lb aluminum driveshaft. The base fuel pressure (vac line off) was set @ 30psi, SAFR set at -10% from 2000 rpms on, timing was set @ 12 BTDC)

VS

7m-gte with a stock CT-26a
@ 6psi, 12psi, 18psi



VS

1mz-fe stock with a CT-26A
@ 10psi









Hmmmmm it *seems* That the smaller engine, with less N/A power just RAPED the same turbo, on it's original application, at much higher psi numbers, mounted on the manifold with tons of EGT to help spool time, while being put on a proven 22% drivetrain loss Automatic Transmission, and using atleast 7' of exhaust pipe - halfing EGT's.

And by raped.... Raped in the brown hole.





Yep... By god those exhaust EGT's sure do help a lot.

 

[Cobolt]

To be diplomatic, I would say that it´s questionable to draw conclusions about EGT based on two different engines with different spec and definetly different Volymetric efficiency.

Use the same engine with the same turbo, and alter "nothing" but the EGT and you will se what the EGT can do for spool-up.

When you have those results, investigate thermodynamics and specifically how differences in enthalpy propells a turbine and how that´s related to pressure, heat, and so on. Yo will come to a different conclusion.

 

[WDoherty]

Ever listen to Muse, i think they have an album Stockholm syndrome, sorry not sure. Also, i don't have full understanding of the thermal dynamics of a turbo system and it makes since if the remote mount is not as efficient, i'm just saying it still helps and seems to work fairly well. Hopefully, i can find out who has that car and just get a personal seat of the pants perspective, **** we even have a track here, maybe they wouldn't mind doing a 1/4 mile or two once it opens up.

 

[Cobolt]

Remotes isn´t as efficient as a standard mount, but ofcourse they give much more horsepower than no turbo at all.

I´m just saying that if one has to chose between a std or a remote mounted turbo solutions and can fit the turbo in either location, an optimized standard mounted turbo solution will always outperform an optimized remote mounted turbo installation.

 

[jtjerry]

we still do not have OIL PUMP that works for that....

 

[Cobolt]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TIL%2D40%2D524&N=115&autoview=sku

Find oil pressure, ex use a T-piece from oilpressure sensor, and route an oil line to the turbo, measure oil pressure at the turbo and use a calculated flow restrictor in the turbo oil inlet to ensure that the oil flow to the turbo is within spec.

Mount the turbo as high as possible, route an oil line down to the pump from the turbos oil outlet wich should point downwards.

Mount the Oil return to the crankcase abowe oil level at the side where the crank is travelling down and make a little splash-guarding plate infront of the oil return inlet inside the crankcase.

If you think that the pump is building to much vaccum, use a "bypas resistor" and give it less voltage or use TOBES suggestion.

What is the problem with the vaccum btw? I have seen one turbo blow a seal from the pressure side and the crank case got "boosted" a little bit (less vaccum), it was on an engine with a 6-stage dry-sump and constant vaccum, but those problems seems to be rare?

 

[SCV8]

While you're at it, consider a dedicated oil reserve for the turbo, ie, not into the engine's sump.
Turbos are kind of hard on the oil, this will allow you to run, and change the turbo oil as required independent of the engine.

 

[Pro]

i've seen an american enginebay using thin motor oil in a sep. reservoir and making the ps pump do all the work for a low mount turbo.

oil ran thru a tranny cooler too.

 

[hi-lex]

could u use the hyd fan pump? its a rotor type pump jus like eng oil pump, use sep res an trans type cooler

 

[Warpspeed]

How about trying a Holley Blue electric fuel pump ?

I know that people have used them as gearbox oil cooler circulating pumps. They are good because the motor has reasonably exposed cooling surface area, and the pump itself has an internal over pressure relief valve. Maybe worth a try ?

 

[Cobolt]

The problem that the pump should solve isn´t to push the oil to the turbo, but to scavenge it away from the turbo, so don´t mount an overpressure relief valve on the oilfeed - that would lower the engines oil pressure.

There are also some concerns about the use of fuelpumps in this application.

Many pumps can overheat, especially fuelpumps constructed to use the fuel for cooling. (I don´t know if a Holley blue has that construction)

There may also be concerns about pumps that uses the fuel for lubrication, oil is a better lubricant, but the bearing clearences is different. Some pumps will probably work just fine, others may have a reduced lifespan.

 

[Warpspeed]

The whole point about the pressure relief valve is that some cold oil can be very thick, and a positive dislplacement pump without a relief valve may easily overload the electric motor due to very high oil viscosity. Even a turbo scavenge pump will see solid stone cold oil for a few minutes after a dead cold engine start. There is a spring loaded blow off relief valve fitted right across the pump rotor, so it is ideal.

The oil coming out of the turbo only foams once boost and exhaust pressure leaks back into the turbo. Bost in the first minute after a dead cold startup is highly unlikely. The construction of the Holly pump allows good cooling of the electric motor, given sufficient airflow.

These pumps are known to work as gearbox oil coolers, and should work equally well as a turbo scavenge pump. I just don't know if anyone has actually tried it yet with a turbo. I am sure an aerospace quality oil pump would be better than a Holly fuel pump, but getting one will not be quite so easy.