oil pump for turbo

[jtjerry]

hi
somebody know what oil pump is used in read mounted STS turbo systems?
they use it for pumping oil from turbo back to engine...

http://ststurbo.com/f_a_q

http://ststurbo.com/inc/iview/253?idx=7&p=8727 (pump)

they do not want sell that pump alone (only all kit)... :cry:

all I know that perhaps must be pump do not make any vacuum just pumping fluids (screw type) or something...

thanks
Jerry

 

[Lextreme II]

I talked to David from STS at SEMA 2004 in LV. He pretty much kept it as a trade secret. I wonder this pump is pressure sensitive or a variable speed base on oil pressure.

Low mount turbo will experience the biggest problem with oil return because at high rpm the oil pressure increase and low rpm oil pressure decrease. Therefore, the oil must be rpm or oil pressure sensitive or they installed something called constant oil pressure regulator.

 

[jtjerry]

ya, I read your problems with first TT LS400
but perhaps they use some kind of pump that do not make vacuum or pressure, only push fluid. Friend told me that pums can pump and do not make vacuum (screw type).

 

[WDoherty]

What type of project are you doing?

 

[jtjerry]

What type of project are you doing?

try make single turbo
1 stage 5-7 psi
2 stage 10-14 psi
not sure about rear mounted turbos but it looks as they run good in v8 engines

Lextreme:
looks as strange super-hyper-secret-oil-pump mystery is solved
that is for 99% Mocal pump
www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal1.htm.

I was looking close at STS system and looks as there is nothing as fancy as wariable speed pump or pressure regulators.
After pupmp is simple oil pressude sender that warning driver if pump do not work or oil lines are broken.
The hardest part of that project seems be uncovered
now must talk with some turbo guru for right sizing turbo for rear aplication (for me best knowlege rear mounted turbo must have bigger turbine ar. that one "normal" turbo mounted close manifolds)

 

[Lextreme II]

So how much is the pump is pushing per minute? Most pump at that size is about 2-3 gallons. How does it know to pump more during higher rpm and reduce during idle? This pump also looks like Tilton Oil Pump.

The pump u mentioned is the same as the one i used:

 

[jtjerry]

"...This 12v fluid circulation pump is suitable for various applications: transmission / differential / rear end cooling, turbo oiling, water intercoolers, cool suits etc. The motor is equipped with ball bearing drive and integral cooling fan for long life. The pump is self priming, meaning it can be mounted above the liquid level, and is capable of handling fluid temps up to 300 degrees F. Nylon pump head/housing with viton diaphragm / seals. Pump head can be indexed 90 degrees for convenient fluid connections.

• Flow rate 1.0-2.0 GPM and up to 54 PSI
• WT 3.5 lbs.
• 3/8" NPT fittings
• 8 amp current draw

P/N MOC17522HT - $179.99 "

​

why it must "know" when pump less?
what is wrong if it pump costantly high?

 

[jtjerry]

that is pump from sts rear mounted turbo systems:
http://ststurbo.com/inc/iview/288?idx=2&p=8284

and that what I found:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=16817&R=16817

close:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTELargeImageView?rfno=16817&storeId=6970

looks familiar? that bottom brass mechanisms seems be identicall.

that is tread from corvette corum where member describe what pump he use for his rear mounted turbo system on his c4 vette.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1037699&page=5&pp=20
(look at bottom that page)

so looks doable...

my english isnt good but perhaps someone can call to northern tool and ask for pump right for hot oil.

 

[WDoherty]

I'm glad someone is trying the rear mounted approach, when lex first mentioned the STS site i was pretty excited about the idea but it didn't seem anyone believed in it. It should be a much easier way of turboing the car, but what car are you doing this in?

 

[jtjerry]

1994 sc 400

 

[Lambo]

This might be a crazy idea, would it be possible to use the redundant Hydraulic fan pump with some pressure reduced somehow, or a powersteer pump for those of us that dont have a Hydaulic fan, as both these pumps would vary their output based on rev's and it seems a waste of a Hydraulic fan pump for it to just sit there doing nothing.

Best Regards
Lambo

 

[ozvenom]

What a Great idea!!!

Lambo i think you hit the nail right on the head the Hydraulic pump for the fan would be perfect . One of the biggest problems with an oil return pump is the effect it can have on turbo seals . I came up with a solution for this by useing a small sump under the turbo which the oil is sucked out of by the return pump all you have to do to equalise the pressure or vacume is have a vent pipe from the turbo sump to the crankcase of the engine ie the back of a cam cover.
This will stop any suction on the turbo seals but allow the oil to be sucked up by the return pump.
Thus the speed and flow of the return pump become less of an issue.
I am going to put a ct26 on my ford couier ute as a stealth installation low boost no intercooler standard manifolds . just to pick up some torque when towing the car trailer.
OZ

 

[jtjerry]

I thinking we try invent wheel again...
STS use simple pump "mistery garden pump" with STS sticker and all seems be ok.
few guys in vette forum use electric pump too and all works fine
All we must is know what that pump is. That all.


there is a lot of pumps types. some of them make big vacum (as that used by Lex) and another not. We need pump that only will pushing oil no making big vacuum.
I will try find that pump on vette forums.

 

[BLOWN EA]

HEY i have one of the electric oil pumps under my car for the twin turbo set up i have i will post some pics of it to show you guys what it looks like

 

[jtjerry]

THANKS!
that will help much. we waiting for pics or description.

 

[Cobolt]

Hate to be the party spoiler, but if a rear mount is up for consideration, one should catch up a little bit on the thermodynamics.

A rear mount treats a turboinstallation like a turbo would be some kind of fan-driven compressor, wich it´s not. A turbo converts both mass flow and heat to a rotational force wich later propells the compressor.

This means that a turbo should ideally be mounted just after the tuned primarys and collector, or up close to the engine and have as short primarys as possible, to make maximum use of pulse energy. In either case, maximum EGT at the turbo, should be on top of the priority list. If problems with the EGT exists, one could benefit from longer tubes to the turbo, but if that problem exists, a rear mount is no solution, the walve seats will vear out in no time anyway.

Best tip: Look for some more space underneath, or in your enginebay.


.

 

[TOBES]

Have you read this thread...

I worked out that if the turbo oil sump was vented back to the rocker covers then the oil pump would not apply a vacumm to the turbo. The pump would act the same as a scavenge pump and pump oil when it was there and circulate crankcase gases when it wasn't. The turbo would only see the vacumm generated by the PCV system, which is the same for any turbo system.
Size the pump to cope with the max oil flow from the turbo and all will be fine...

http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879

 

[WDoherty]

Cobalt, check out www.ststurbo.com read the FAQ's and see what you think, they try to dispell the need for heat, i dunno know. Their dyno's look really good too.

 

[Cobolt]

What I mean is that their dyno would look much nicer if the turboinstallation would be where it´s supposed to be.

With a turbo placed nearer the engine, the engine could support a larger turbine and make higher boost with the same backpressure and same lag.

With a turbo placed far away, like that, one must use a smaller turbo (less EGT, more laminar flow) to decrease lag.

SAE, Society of Automotive Engineers, has a substantial amount of papers that support this, and SAE is the core of the automotive industry. Porsche is a good example of good turbocars who´s using the "shortest exhaustpipe possibly" and the pulse gain to spool their turbos with wery good results.

What im saying is that a rear mounted turbo will work, but much less efficient.

If one is just aiming for a little more horsepower, a rearmount can be a way, but I haven´t seen anyone that has started to tune their cars who´s not wanting more under the right foot after a few months, and on that basis, the "correct" way of building a turbo installation, is the better, since that way give one more potential of "growing" without changing just about every bit of the system. I mean that the easy way, seems to bee the more expensive way in the long run.

 

[WDoherty]

Well, i give props jtjerry for doing this, i think it will work, although i do hope some quality turbo headers for the sc400 eventually make their way out. After doing some work in my sc400 engine bay, i don't know how the turbo could be mounted under the hood, unless some major components were removed, i.e., the engine ha. This should be a great alternative to traditional systems, even if maxx horsepower insn't where it would be. This is inexpensive, and should require less labor with signifcant gains.