Lextreme II
Active Member
LS7 perhaps?
My SC400 will R.I.P..!!!!
- Thread starter jibbby
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
They always say the new engine is fine!!! It may well be??
But knowing the faults of an engine and assembling them accordingly may be a better option??? It seems any deffects was in clearances / assembly ?? The higher power engines didn't suffer the same issues .. I guess better assembly [ blue printing] and better parts...
Ring flutter was one issue with second ring tighter than top.. Which occurred at high rpm at low throttle.. So a herd driven engine MAY not have this issue.. It was common for a female driven car to have issues yet a T5/6 manual equipped HSV didn't in most cases.. Yes they had issues with oil pick up in conversion to different sumps... But is this just a cover up ??? I didn't hear of any engines grenading! So bassically strong engine!!!
Hmmm...
I have been following the LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 and LS7 engine applications for years now and was VERY surprised by your reporting engines wearing out at 30k. Early engines did seem to suffer from weak pushrods that would bend if the engine was over-reved. Checked out your links above and decided to do some searching over at www.ls1tech.com which along with www.corvetteforum.com is a great resource for anyone interested in these engines.
I did a search on piston slap and here is the first return
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=853887&highlight=piston+slap
post #37
most lsx engines experience PISTON SLAP. short piston skirts at the problem, i believe. one vehicle's being worse than anothers is simply in the build tolerances. same reason some stock ls1 cars haul ass and others are boat anchors. i can think of 7 ls1 cars off the top of my head that have that problem. 3 of them are making serious power, 2 have over 150k on them, and 0 have had any problems.
post #40
Don't worry about it. It My 5.3 has done it for the 170k+ miles I have put on it. Sometimes sounds terrible like a diesel sometimes not. Sometimes a light tick when warm sometimes not. I doubt switching to RP oil will help it because what is happening is the very short piston skirt(to eliminate weight) allows the piston to rock back and forth as it is moving up and down in the cylinder. Carbon build-up on the piston contributes to this. Many have temporarily eliminated or helped the problem by "Seafoaming" their engine through the PCV or brake booster. I am surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. There is a whole website devoted to this and they tried to get a class action lawsuit against GM about it. It is bookmarked on my other computer and their slogan is " GM, like a knock" My 5.3 has used a little oil since new I believe because of the looser tolerances which causes the slap but my 5.7 is tighter and has no slap or oil usage.
post #57
The sites below talk about it, people are pissed everywhere, just google "piston slap". My 02 2500HD (LQ4) has done it since day 1, 150,000 miles ago. My 99 ls1 doesn't.
Ever heard the saying "Chevy - Like a Knock"
http://www.lemonlaw.com/gm-engine-problem.html"
Sounds like a common problem but mostly an annoyance. I am sure there are bad engines and this seems like a poor quality problem from GM but NOT a serious operational issue for most engines.
Lextreme II
Active Member
Do it bro.. the Triad will help you out. So we can document the swap from A to Z.
jibby, ls2's do come with normal transmission's in 05up gto's , but these packages get real expensive. Ls1's come in these packages as well in camaro's and tran am's for a little less. The difference in packaging is not between the ls1 or ls2, it is just that you can't use the corvette transmission from a c5 or c6 because they use transaxles, so forget the corvette drivetrain. Also, you do not use a piggyback on an lsX ecu, there are many programming tools, ls1edit etc., that properly reflash the ecu, so getting these tuned is very easy.
WD, you sure know alot about these GM cars, motors and trannies.. I guess you see the same potential as I do...I think I will PM'ing you with future questions if you don't mind.. You da man!!!
Curious, Why don't you get one for yourself? The older LS1's are fairly inexpensive to swap into any car and can still be made to make good power......Are you still in the process of grinding out school and on a students budget?....Any projects in the works for you?
I did look at the LS2's today and just got home from the yards.. You were right as they were all equiped with the transaxles like you said..All the Vettes!!!... A complete wash for an SC400 swap.. You say the 05" and up GTO's have the LS2's and normal trannies?.. Those cars are only a few years old and should cost a pretty penny if you can even find one in the wreck yards.. I am probably looking at the base LS1 1999 and newer models for the swap... A little dissapointing because the LS1's are rated at 345hp at stock unlike the LS2's that are rated at 395hp.. The LS2's are clearly the better motors too.. That 50 hp difference I was really looking forward too..
My goal is still 400whp N/A so I am looking at replacement performance cams, straight 3" exhaust with performance headers and an ECU tune to hopefully reach that goal on an LS1.....The LS2's I could have gotten away with just the stock cams, exhaust and ECU tune... Oh well, it's not the end of the world..
Thanks again for your input. In the end I will probably be saving alot of money anyway...It's LS1 time..
Curious, Why don't you get one for yourself? The older LS1's are fairly inexpensive to swap into any car and can still be made to make good power......Are you still in the process of grinding out school and on a students budget?....Any projects in the works for you?
I did look at the LS2's today and just got home from the yards.. You were right as they were all equiped with the transaxles like you said..All the Vettes!!!... A complete wash for an SC400 swap.. You say the 05" and up GTO's have the LS2's and normal trannies?.. Those cars are only a few years old and should cost a pretty penny if you can even find one in the wreck yards.. I am probably looking at the base LS1 1999 and newer models for the swap... A little dissapointing because the LS1's are rated at 345hp at stock unlike the LS2's that are rated at 395hp.. The LS2's are clearly the better motors too.. That 50 hp difference I was really looking forward too..
My goal is still 400whp N/A so I am looking at replacement performance cams, straight 3" exhaust with performance headers and an ECU tune to hopefully reach that goal on an LS1.....The LS2's I could have gotten away with just the stock cams, exhaust and ECU tune... Oh well, it's not the end of the world..
Thanks again for your input. In the end I will probably be saving alot of money anyway...It's LS1 time..
Yes it does have to do with budget. I am done with school, but i turned down the job that would have paid for toys (test driving at the Firestone Texas proving grounds) and am pursuing film production. Therefore i basically have to forget projects for now and i may be perpetually bartending. I just try to focus on maintenance and keep the sc up. As far as pm'ing i really don't know that much, but i don't mind questions. Have you considered finding a professional on swaps/wiring (sideshow) as sort of a back up in case things get messy; this is quite a job.
WD, Don't sell yourself short...You know plenty, and have posted well on this forum over the years... Glad to hear you've finished school...Bartending isn't so bad for a while until something solid comes up. It's a social job and the potential to meet chicks is always very high.. Just try and have fun and just don't get hammered on the job..:alcoholic:
WD, I think I can handle the swap and all aspects of it.. If I run into trouble I got Lex and friends on backup.. I really think I can study the wiring diagrams of both the LS1 and SC400 and figure out what needs to hookup where and how.. Just got to take it one wire at a time, and I am ready for the challenge...The complete LS1 and ECU should come with all the needed sensors and electrical on it to run. Really it's just a matter of getting all the in cabin electrical to integrate properly like the cluster, Etc... The fuel delivery and feed could get a little hairy, but the cooling fans and system are on block heat sensor now so that is ok,...Ignition integration will need careful attention I am sure..All the hard physical stuff, mounts, fitment, etc. should be real easy for me, as I got the welder and the skills being a contractor...I think I am good across the board..... We will see? I think the ignition, fuel and throttle hookup to me will be the hardest parts of this swap perhaps... I got the driveshaft shop hookup to custum make and fit the needed shaft... I got a header shop too if a custom set is needed to made... I am a little concerned about the aftermarket prefabbed header fitment as it will be a very tight squeeze as the LS1 and LS2 motors are just a bit wider then the 1uz-fe motors..Set header/extractor positions on both motors are different as well.. Nothing that a Saw Saw metal cutting blade, hammer and welder can't fix though on the chasis side of things.... If I am leaving something out please let me know....
Let the games begin....Back to the wreck yards today for that LS1 package..
I should have done this years ago.. I had a dream and this picture image appeared for some reason...Go figure?????
WD, I think I can handle the swap and all aspects of it.. If I run into trouble I got Lex and friends on backup.. I really think I can study the wiring diagrams of both the LS1 and SC400 and figure out what needs to hookup where and how.. Just got to take it one wire at a time, and I am ready for the challenge...The complete LS1 and ECU should come with all the needed sensors and electrical on it to run. Really it's just a matter of getting all the in cabin electrical to integrate properly like the cluster, Etc... The fuel delivery and feed could get a little hairy, but the cooling fans and system are on block heat sensor now so that is ok,...Ignition integration will need careful attention I am sure..All the hard physical stuff, mounts, fitment, etc. should be real easy for me, as I got the welder and the skills being a contractor...I think I am good across the board..... We will see? I think the ignition, fuel and throttle hookup to me will be the hardest parts of this swap perhaps... I got the driveshaft shop hookup to custum make and fit the needed shaft... I got a header shop too if a custom set is needed to made... I am a little concerned about the aftermarket prefabbed header fitment as it will be a very tight squeeze as the LS1 and LS2 motors are just a bit wider then the 1uz-fe motors..Set header/extractor positions on both motors are different as well.. Nothing that a Saw Saw metal cutting blade, hammer and welder can't fix though on the chasis side of things.... If I am leaving something out please let me know....
Let the games begin....Back to the wreck yards today for that LS1 package..
I should have done this years ago.. I had a dream and this picture image appeared for some reason...Go figure?????
Xr8tt - I've read up on the Vette/LSx forums these past few days to get a better picture of these motors, like how to modify, what problems can arise, etc.....I have not seen or read about these issues you speak of in the newer LSx motors here in the USA (premature ring wear, or failure, etc)... However, there have been many reported problems with the early model LS1 motors that were made pre 1999... Something to the effect of oil flow restrictions and or problems within the motors (oil passages are too small) and some electrical issues that are commonly reported... From what I have read it is probably not a wise decision to get one pre 1999..
The C6 6.0L 395hp LS2 motors are reported to be very solid and effecient, and the LS7's are basically a dream motor from what I have read... Here is a couple of LS2 pics...
The C6 6.0L 395hp LS2 motors are reported to be very solid and effecient, and the LS7's are basically a dream motor from what I have read... Here is a couple of LS2 pics...
stevechumo
Active Member
The Vette engine has single coil for each cylinder. Nice.
XR8tt
Active Member
As with the Genlll's we have here...
They always say the new engine is fine!!! It may well be??
But knowing the faults of an engine and assembling them accordingly may be a better option??? It seems any deffects was in clearances / assembly ?? The higher power engines didn't suffer the same issues .. I guess better assembly [ blue printing] and better parts...
Ring flutter was one issue with second ring tighter than top.. Which occurred at high rpm at low throttle.. So a herd driven engine MAY not have this issue.. It was common for a female driven car to have issues yet a T5/6 manual equipped HSV didn't in most cases.. Yes they had issues with oil pick up in conversion to different sumps... But is this just a cover up ??? I didn't hear of any engines grenading! So bassically strong engine!!!
Xr8tt - Do you know exactly which specific LSx engines experience this ring flutter at high rpms with low throttle with the potential of engine failure at around 30,000 miles?... I would love to learn more about this problem and does it potentially apply to all the LSx motors or a just a few specific? I really want to avoid any potential engine problems if possible..
Also as mentioned in your previous posts, I don't see how an over seas GM LSx motor would differ in composition from a GM LSx motor here in the USA... Aren't they both manufactured by the same GM companies and should be identical in every way? Maybe tuned down some or something to that effect but structully changing the dynamics of the engine just doesnt make sense to me.. Woud GM really change things up for the worse just for our overseas friends?
GM has their knocks and problems but to go that far would be down right bad business..
Also as mentioned in your previous posts, I don't see how an over seas GM LSx motor would differ in composition from a GM LSx motor here in the USA... Aren't they both manufactured by the same GM companies and should be identical in every way? Maybe tuned down some or something to that effect but structully changing the dynamics of the engine just doesnt make sense to me.. Woud GM really change things up for the worse just for our overseas friends?
GM has their knocks and problems but to go that far would be down right bad business..
stevechumo
Active Member
I'm not sure if the LS engine made oversee and domestically are the same or not. But the cases of the Soarer in Australia and the SC400 in the U.S, and the Honda in Japan and the Honda in the U.S. can tell us they can be made differently although they come from the same company.
Good point Steve,
However, I would think that there wouldn't be any extreme internal engine changes between foreign and domestic car markets... Then again I could be wrong......
You know they do even make suttle changes between the cars when manufactured when selling in some different States here in the US...Mainly for the smog and climate variations that differ between States.... Anything is possible...
However, I would think that there wouldn't be any extreme internal engine changes between foreign and domestic car markets... Then again I could be wrong......
You know they do even make suttle changes between the cars when manufactured when selling in some different States here in the US...Mainly for the smog and climate variations that differ between States.... Anything is possible...
XR8tt
Active Member
They came in as crate engines.. We often say that G.M knew this issue and sent them down here as we don't have "lemon" laws ???
From approx 05 and latter you should be fine...But I had talked to my brother who lives in U.S who has a GTO [Holden Monaro] but its an 07 model. BUT engine was possibly built up to two years earlier ?? .He said he didn't hear of any issues there? But a Google at the time did find the same problem!! Strange the engines are crated to Australia then shipped back to where they where originally made ??
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/archive/index.php/t-36039.html
Here's another dedicated to this engine..
http://www.pistonslap.com/
LS1 forum on piston slap... The SS is the Gen lll The XR8 Boss and GT is the Ford 5.4 twin cam 4 valve motor with its specific inlet with Cobra heads... The Ford runs coil on plug [cop] while Gen lll has 8 seperate coils on rocker cover and short spark plug lead...
From approx 05 and latter you should be fine...But I had talked to my brother who lives in U.S who has a GTO [Holden Monaro] but its an 07 model. BUT engine was possibly built up to two years earlier ?? .He said he didn't hear of any issues there? But a Google at the time did find the same problem!! Strange the engines are crated to Australia then shipped back to where they where originally made ??
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/archive/index.php/t-36039.html
Here's another dedicated to this engine..
http://www.pistonslap.com/
LS1 forum on piston slap... The SS is the Gen lll The XR8 Boss and GT is the Ford 5.4 twin cam 4 valve motor with its specific inlet with Cobra heads... The Ford runs coil on plug [cop] while Gen lll has 8 seperate coils on rocker cover and short spark plug lead...
Hmmm...
I have been following the LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 and LS7 engine applications for years now and was VERY surprised by your reporting engines wearing out at 30k. Early engines did seem to suffer from weak pushrods that would bend if the engine was over-reved. Checked out your links above and decided to do some searching over at www.ls1tech.com which along with www.corvetteforum.com is a great resource for anyone interested in these engines.
I did a search on piston slap and here is the first return
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=853887&highlight=piston+slap
post #37
most lsx engines experience PISTON SLAP. short piston skirts at the problem, i believe. one vehicle's being worse than anothers is simply in the build tolerances. same reason some stock ls1 cars haul ass and others are boat anchors. i can think of 7 ls1 cars off the top of my head that have that problem. 3 of them are making serious power, 2 have over 150k on them, and 0 have had any problems.
post #40
Don't worry about it. It My 5.3 has done it for the 170k+ miles I have put on it. Sometimes sounds terrible like a diesel sometimes not. Sometimes a light tick when warm sometimes not. I doubt switching to RP oil will help it because what is happening is the very short piston skirt(to eliminate weight) allows the piston to rock back and forth as it is moving up and down in the cylinder. Carbon build-up on the piston contributes to this. Many have temporarily eliminated or helped the problem by "Seafoaming" their engine through the PCV or brake booster. I am surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. There is a whole website devoted to this and they tried to get a class action lawsuit against GM about it. It is bookmarked on my other computer and their slogan is " GM, like a knock" My 5.3 has used a little oil since new I believe because of the looser tolerances which causes the slap but my 5.7 is tighter and has no slap or oil usage.
post #57
The sites below talk about it, people are pissed everywhere, just google "piston slap". My 02 2500HD (LQ4) has done it since day 1, 150,000 miles ago. My 99 ls1 doesn't.
Ever heard the saying "Chevy - Like a Knock"
http://www.lemonlaw.com/gm-engine-problem.html"
Sounds like a common problem but mostly an annoyance. I am sure there are bad engines and this seems like a poor quality problem from GM but NOT a serious operational issue for most engines.
I've had piston slap in 2 of my last 3 Suburbans. Doesn't slap at idle with no load, but sounds like a diesel when you move away from a stop when cold. After it warms up, no more slap.
People seem to tolerate it whenever they buy a Chevy. Wonder if they would tolerate it in a Lexus?
People seem to tolerate it whenever they buy a Chevy. Wonder if they would tolerate it in a Lexus?
Attachments
Thanks for all the links and info. fellas on this "nastly slap piston" issue... I also did a lot of research these past few days and found that there are occasional reports of this dreaded knock, and or piston slap...It doesn't appear to be very common in most of the newer LSx engines, but it does show up in some older ones as reported...
That is just simply horrible and unecceptable in my opinion...if I were to buy a new Vette or other GM car and had that knock engine problem I simply would not tolerate that.. There would be a return, or some other legal action taken on my part... A slapping piston against the cylinder walls leading to potential premature engine failure, Wow!!!!!.. Gm builders must be drinking one to many Budwiesers beers when assembling some of these motors at the plants...
Cribbj, as you stated you would never see that problem in the 1uz-fe motors as each 1uz. are blue printed at the very start and assembled with the utmost care.. I have always said the 1uz.. are one of the best motors ever built, write up in local car museums state the same.. Bolt for bolt, the 1uz's are superior then the LSx's, as they will last longer, run smoother, be more reliable, etc.. However, unfortunately they cannot come close to matching the N/A power output per liter when comparing to the newer LSx motors and that is what is so attractive to me and most others...
That is just simply horrible and unecceptable in my opinion...if I were to buy a new Vette or other GM car and had that knock engine problem I simply would not tolerate that.. There would be a return, or some other legal action taken on my part... A slapping piston against the cylinder walls leading to potential premature engine failure, Wow!!!!!.. Gm builders must be drinking one to many Budwiesers beers when assembling some of these motors at the plants...
Cribbj, as you stated you would never see that problem in the 1uz-fe motors as each 1uz. are blue printed at the very start and assembled with the utmost care.. I have always said the 1uz.. are one of the best motors ever built, write up in local car museums state the same.. Bolt for bolt, the 1uz's are superior then the LSx's, as they will last longer, run smoother, be more reliable, etc.. However, unfortunately they cannot come close to matching the N/A power output per liter when comparing to the newer LSx motors and that is what is so attractive to me and most others...
XR8tt
Active Member
Built up as performance or race motors they do fine...
One good point about the 1UZ is it can be bought off an importer thrown in almost any car and go.. Given there's big potential to have bore damage due to salt / water getting in there.. Talking to some importers, there is VERY little warranty claims with 1UZ even second hand...Keep in mind they are often run with aftermarket ecu"s etc with unknown tune ....
Sign of the times compared to old 350 Chevy !!!
I have worked part time years ago for a U.S importer in N.Z and MOST engines you couldn't see the valve gear due to bad oil / no service.. But they still ran and reasonably quiet considering.. It's strange these new engines can pass emissions with these issues !!!!
One good point about the 1UZ is it can be bought off an importer thrown in almost any car and go.. Given there's big potential to have bore damage due to salt / water getting in there.. Talking to some importers, there is VERY little warranty claims with 1UZ even second hand...Keep in mind they are often run with aftermarket ecu"s etc with unknown tune ....
Sign of the times compared to old 350 Chevy !!!
I have worked part time years ago for a U.S importer in N.Z and MOST engines you couldn't see the valve gear due to bad oil / no service.. But they still ran and reasonably quiet considering.. It's strange these new engines can pass emissions with these issues !!!!
streetzwaching
New Member
what kind of strut bar is that? and how much u want for it.
