Mobil 1 Truck & SUV synthetic / Shell Rotella T / API CI-4 Oil

[milnersXcoupe]

Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W-30 / Shell Rotella - T / API CI-4 oils:umbrella:



Why do these HD Oils still have ZDDP ?

[...and why are these the ONLY Oils to run in your 'Quad Kamm'd Beasties' ?]


Because..........

Over the road Tractor Trailer 'Big Rig' Corporates would have been losing engines at an alarming rate - and the EPA knew this - knew of the headache it would cause American Commerce.

So the EPA excluded 'Delvac' > HD engine oils > - Diesel Engine Oil - from the Zinc ban.



thENnn........ 'Delvac' was renamed Truck & SUV Oil - since the weight classification of 'Heavy Trucks' included them. [ read for more SALES 'n so as to get around the EPA ]


The Trucking Lobby received quiet behind closed doors preferential treatment - or they were going to 'shut down' in protest of huge increases in down time / operating costs.


-quote- from *1999*:

The Vanishing Zinc and Phosphorous

It is a fact than many SL oils now contain lower levels of ZDDP (the zinc/phosphorous extreme pressure additive) and that is a big concern to a lot of motorcyclists.

[*Note: because their owners don't want them turning to scrap slowly - or - quickly ]

ZDDP is a last resort protection against metal-to-metal contact.

[*Note: When the ZDDP ban became effective - many American Car manufacturers running lifter / pushrod engines began having high rates of failures. CRANE CAMS / COMP CAMS etc. began having 'Failures' - big crisis until they came up with a different hardening process ]


Whereas a few years ago the zinc level was typically 0.12% to 0.15% in SG automobile oils, some SL oils now have as little as 0.05%.


[*Note: Now some 8 years later - most have NO ZDDP ]


However, this in itself may not be a problem since normal operation of a motorcycle on the street would never result in metal-to-metal contact any more than it would in your automobile.:smlove2:

*Note>[ yeah, ...'Eat Me'...]:la:


-end quote-


-quote- from *1999*

Heavy-Duty Oils

My favorite oils and the ones I most mostly recommend for HD use, are the "heavy-duty" oils.

They are commonly misunderstood, and often referred to as "diesel oils."

They are NOT energy conserving, have higher zinc levels, as high as 0.16%, and by virtue of their multi-duty have a better engine protection package than an oil that is only rated "SL".



These heavy-duty oils were rated SJ or SL, plus CH-4.


[*Note: The SJ or SL ratings NO LONGER carry ZDDP - and CH-4 is now API CI-4] ]:flowers1:


They are currently closer in formulation to the motorcycle specific oils and to the "SG" oils that many motorcycle makers recommend.

Following are some examples of these oils, generally 15w40 oils by industry convention.

There may be several other 15w40 oils that I am not familiar with.

1. Castrol RX Super 15w40
2. Chevron Delo 400 15w40
3. Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40
4. Pennzoil Long-Life 15w40
5. Quaker State 4X4 Synthetic Blend 15w40
6. Shell Rotella-T 15w40 (my personal favorite)
7. SuperTech 2000 (WalMart) 15w40
8. Valvoline All Fleet 15w40
9. Castrol Syntec Blend Truck and 4X4 15w40


-end quote-

*Note: Most all of these are no longer HD engine oils as their packages have been removed entirely since *1999*.:crazy:


-quote-

A fairly new player in the synthetic market is Shell with Rotella-T Full Synthetic 5w40.

It is not energy-conserving and according to Shell performs competitively with Mobil Delvac One full synthtetic, which means it offers even more protection than does Mobil One 15w50.

A number of motorcyclists have reported to me good results so far with his use of the new Synthetic Rotella-T.



Delvac One should be an excellent motorcycle oil but is generally available only at truck stops or in commercial quantities.


For those who may have connections with a long-haul trucking operation, where Delvac One is known to be used in oil change intervals up to 150,000 miles, or even more, you may want to try it if the price is right.

-end quote-



-quote-

A synthetic oil formulated for gasoline engines may not meet the requirements for diesels.:684:


For example, regular Mobil 1 synthetic would not be a recommended oil for the Dmax.:crucified:




Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 meets/exceeds the API specification for the Dmax.

(http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/u...=007405#000000)





Mobil 1 Truck & SUV Formula is supposed to be relabeled Delvac 1, and is used by forum members.




Shell Rotella T is another synthetic that meets/exceeds the API CI-4 specification.


-end quote-




*Note: 'BMW OIL' - sold by BMW for their vehicles > cars and trucks and motorcycles < is MOBIL Delvac > bought by BMW from MOBIL and Relabled 'BMW OIL'.:yeah:




Delvac / Rotella T are the ONLY TWO engine oils to run in our Magnificent DOHC V-8 Engines.:squareeyed:




*Note: :unitedstates:

 

[rms]

Welcome to the 21st century of 'better' oils milnersX.

The EP additives in themselves are not really eco unfriendly.

ZDDP will kill catalytic converters, this is why the EPA want them reduced.
Motor manufacturers are pushing the oil companies for thinner oils to reduce emissions at cold start - hence reduced bearing clearances.

Oil companies are phasing out the production of oils suitable for extreme performance engines.

Here in Oz the V8 Supercar teams contracted to Mobil and Castrol use oils that are blended just for them. These oils are NOT available to ANYONE else.

Shell do make a 15/60 synthetic that is not known by the public, advertised or even in their price lists. It is available by special request only, in 5 imp gallon drums, and made for Ferrari.

In our race engine we use a Motul oil that has no API rating and is marked 'for race use ONLY'.

So be 'very, very, afraid' of ANY oil company sales rep that says his oil is 'better' for high performance engines and 'ace driver/team' uses it, they just want to sell more oil.

Just be aware that EP and HD oils with high % of ZDDP is a more suitable oil for high performance engines, they will kill catalytic converters.


'Oils aint Oils'

 

[milnersXcoupe]

'Energy Conserving' Oil

rms -


Didn't know about the closer bearing tolerances - no one is talking of that
around here - another good reason to run API / CI-4 rated engine oil.


The 'Energy Conserving' Oils moniker raised a red flag - knew there was more to this that wasn't all that Motor Friendly - there's the answer.


Concern for CAT converter life was raised on Forums - not that I care as I'd sooner swap out - swap in for a Certification Test / one day only situation than have a 4.7 DOHC suffer the slings and arrows of Global Warming - not that I would - just a concept.:squint: you understand.


'Oil Situation in Aussie Land' - makes me want to begin stockpiling the Delvac Synthetic in bulk:439:

 

[Tomasberkut]

What about oil additives wich are supposed to contain phosphor and zinc, as well as other stuff, like MoS. As far as i know they are mainly designed to work in highly stressed gearboxes and diffs.

Is there any chance they would work with good grade comnonly available synthetic oils on the market?



How do these heavy duty oils relate to our 1uzfe's. As far as i know they're preety "tight", if i remember correctly from the v-eight discussion boards you ought to run "race" oils with slightly bigger tolerances in order to archieve a thicker oil film and more protection. Can they be run "as is" ?

I am asking beacause some of us will never touch our shortblock, i own a totally mint 30000km (yes its not a mistake) non vvti 1uzfe wich will never be touched in the bottom end department (at least as long as i wont get forged internals) and only the heads, manifolds and engine management will be changed. The engine will have a hard life, probably never seeing below 5000rpm, tho only about 2000 mile a year....

The simple question is: should we bother with such oils? Im talking about high, prolonged revving.


Tomas

 

[milnersXcoupe]

Run larger clearances for a thicker film - that is one concept.

The API CI-4 rating is the only oil I would use.

Why would you want to buy a Synthetic Oil without the correct and accurate
additives - to attempt to 'conjure' up a Witches Brew by adding gearbox lube when you can purchase the 'Right Item' over the counter?

Adding MOS moly in an unregulated fashion runs the risk of too much and clogging the filter.

In recent years - directions on how to use 'Assembly Lube' aka Moly Paste are included with the purchase - as this can clog oil filters. Moly looks like Ivory Snow Flakes under a microscope.

BMW uses their 'BMW OIL' in their Car - Truck - Motorcycle engines, and is
relabeled Mobil 1 'Delvac' synthetic - now named Mobil 1 SUC & Truck synthetic.

I will not use any other oil beyond Shell Rotella - T or Mobil 1 'Delvac' synthetic aka Mobil 1 Truck & SUV synthetic in any vehicle.

There is no need to run any larger clearances using these oils.

Should you bother to protect against metal to metal contact - regardless of RPM ceilings ?

Engines that have run these protection packages - when opened up - appear as to have near zero wear - not speaking of Toyotas that have great materials - talking about American Iron that were having cam - lifter - lifter bore - accelerated ring and cylinder bore and bearing wear after the ZDDP packages were removed.

Crane Cams / Comp Cams etc. were experiencing failure rates never before seen. Lifter bores wear was causing lower oil pressure readings - etc.


Common sense dictates using one of these two oils.

Run either in your 1UZ - with the knowledge you got it right.

 

[milnersXcoupe]

DUE TO THE 5 MINUTE ONLY ALLOWANCE FOR EDITING - I HAD TO POST THE ENTIRE EDITED VERSION BELOW THE ORIGINAL - HOPE THIS HELPS - :madfawk: :la: :censored: :flowers1: :squint: :zx11pissed:



Run larger clearances for a thicker film - that is one concept.

The API CI-4 rating is the only oil I would use.

Why would you want to buy a Synthetic Oil without the correct and accurate
additives - to attempt to 'conjure' up a Witches Brew by adding gearbox lube when you can purchase the 'Right Item' over the counter?

Adding MOS moly in an unregulated fashion runs the risk of too much and clogging the filter - and will 'grease' the bottom of your oil pan.

In recent years - directions on how to use 'Assembly Lube' aka Moly Paste are included with the purchase - as this can clog oil filters. Moly looks like Ivory Snow Soap Flakes under a microscope.



BMW provides their 'BMW OIL' in BMW Car - Truck - Motorcycle engines, and is
relabeled Mobil 1 'Delvac' synthetic - now named Mobil 1 SUV & Truck synthetic.



I will not use any other oil beyond Shell Rotella - T or Mobil 1 'Delvac' synthetic aka Mobil 1 Truck & SUV synthetic in any vehicle.


There is no need to run any larger clearances using these oils.


Should you bother to protect against metal to metal contact - regardless of RPM ceilings ?


Engines that have run these protection packages - when opened up - appear as to have near zero wear - not speaking of Toyotas that have great materials - talking about American Iron that were having cam - lifter - lifter bore - accelerated ring and cylinder bore and bearing wear after the ZDDP packages were removed.

Crane Cams / Comp Cams etc. were experiencing failure rates never before seen. Lifter bores wear was causing lower oil pressure readings - etc.


Common sense dictates using one of these two oils.

Monitor your Oil Temp - you may see a drop in Temp using either of these two CI-4 Oils.

Run either in your 1UZ - with the knowledge and confidence that YOU got it right.

 

[Tomasberkut]

Why would you want to buy a Synthetic Oil without the correct and accurate
additives - to attempt to 'conjure' up a Witches Brew by adding gearbox lube when you can purchase the 'Right Item' over the counter?

Beacause as you have may noticed i live in Poland and unless you make some friends with a truck service crew or directly with Mobil / Shell guys they wont want to sell this stuff to you unless its a 200L drum, or at least i have been searching wrong, ill try to call a few peapole today.

Adding MOS moly in an unregulated fashion runs the risk of too much and clogging the filter - and will 'grease' the bottom of your oil pan.

This is very interesting, i disassembled a one or two engines with the symptoms you describe, the engine suddenly spun a con rod bearing due to massive contamination of oil with metal shavings- now i know why did a perfect engine, driven in good conditions suddenly started to work bad and siezed, the user must have added too much. The oil filter must have got clogged and the bypass valve opened...

In recent years - directions on how to use 'Assembly Lube' aka Moly Paste are included with the purchase - as this can clog oil filters. Moly looks like Ivory Snow Soap Flakes under a microscope.

Thats why manufacterers like kent cams send the mos lube in very small packages wich are just about right for the engine.

BMW provides their 'BMW OIL' in BMW Car - Truck - Motorcycle engines, and is
relabeled Mobil 1 'Delvac' synthetic - now named Mobil 1 SUV & Truck synthetic.

I have to do a research on this. Once you mentioned motorcycle oils.

Whats the difference?

I have 4 litres of Motul 4 stroke 10W60 (if i remember correctly) motorcycle engine oil, bought by accident by my Dad (the seller didnt tell him its for motorcycles and i noticed it before he used in his Escort Cosworth).

They need to have a bigger shear resistance as the gearbox is integrated with the engine (a major factor), as well as higher engine speeds (especially the valve train components shearing the oil).


My last question would be related to Motul Competition oils. As far as i know they are based on Ester oils, unlike traditional oils on a hydrocarbon base. How do these endure ? I know they have a much smaller lifespan, work really briliant in turbocharged engines but what counts for me is how do they resist to high rpm engines. Over here in Poland almost everyone treats this oil as its the ultimate engine oil and uses them in their turbocharged engines (1200 + bhp supra for example, 600bhp + Mitsu / Subaru, 1000bhp+ Turbocharged SBC), but no one says ANYTHING about n/a engines..

 

[milnersXcoupe]

http://tinyurl.com/ytwyet


Take a look here for starters:


-quote-

WolfPlayer
05-15-2007, 05:14 PM
My dealership (flagship of Subaru Canada) uses Motul 8100 5w30 as their premium oil in their oil change service so I'm totally confused.

Don't worry. 5W-30 is completely fine for our cars for daily driving. I wouldn't use it on a road race course. However, for daily driving, especially for short trips - definitely fine. I ran 0W-30 M1R for a long time. Plenty of other people are running German Castrol. No worries. You are fine. Just don't road race with it ... and don't use it on a non-SOA shortblock where the builder opened up the bearing clearance.

t
littledrummerboy
05-15-2007, 05:59 PM
Don't worry. 5W-30 is completely fine for our cars for daily driving. I wouldn't use it on a road race course. However, for daily driving, especially for short trips - definitely fine. I ran 0W-30 M1R for a long time. Plenty of other people are running German Castrol. No worries. You are fine. Just don't road race with it ... and don't use it on a non-SOA shortblock where the builder opened up the bearing clearance.

tHmmm.. ok. I'll probably bump to the 5w40 for the extra protection. Its just strange hearing that Motul is "not approved", but up here its recommended even though we have the same engine as everyone else and the climate around southern Ontario is pretty much the same as the border States.
nhluhr
05-15-2007, 06:04 PM
Motul is a superior oil to just about everything on the approved list. The fact that it's not GF4 or SM just means they haven't bothered to adapt to the lower sulfur regulations. It is completely capable of protecting your engine. yes, even at a track day. You do not need to bump up to the next viscosity.
bluesubie
05-16-2007, 09:27 AM
Motul is a superior oil to just about everything on the approved list. The fact that it's not GF4 or SM just means they haven't bothered to adapt to the lower sulfur regulations. It is completely capable of protecting your engine. yes, even at a track day. You do not need to bump up to the next viscosity.
Maybe the ester based Motul 300V, but not the 8100 5W30 IMHO. At 9.9 cst's at 100C, it's a thin 30 weight. OTOH, the 5W30 300V is 12.0 cst's at 100 and is more shear stable.

-Dennis
WolfPlayer
05-16-2007, 10:12 AM
Maybe the ester based Motul 300V, but not the 8100 5W30 IMHO. At 9.9 cst's at 100C, it's a thin 30 weight. OTOH, the 5W30 300V is 12.0 cst's at 100 and is more shear stable.

-Dennis

I agree that it is thin for a 30 weight. Even the Motul 0W-30 is greater than 10 cst's @ 100C. However, for a daily driver - especially short trips - the Motul 5W-30 would be fine. Now, with that said, I would NOT use that oil for road racing. For the Drag Strip - it would be ideal. For Road Racing or AutoX I wouldn't use it.

I picked what I believe to be a great Motul oil - the 8100 0W-40. Guess what? The 8100 0W-40 is ester based It has a 0W rating for quick flow at low temps (which is very important to me). It also has a nice cst rating at 100C that is less than the 5W-40 counterparts, but still more than the standard 30 weight oils. I have a feeling that this oil will be awesome. But, we'll see. I always get my oil analyzed so I'll have plenty of results.


-end quote-

 

[SCV8]

I have used an additive for about 15 years called "Power Up", am assuming it's a zinc additive, but it does add a quite noticable boost.
Mobil 0W40, works well with it.

Would be nice to just find an oil with the same effect.