Is the 1UZFE the way to go for FI?

[zhagg]

I'm planning on getting an SC300/400 by next spring, but I can't dedide which one I want... Either one I get, the first major mod will be suspension, but the engine will definetely get turbo'd... V8/I6 which is a better platform to start with? I'd like to have around 400-500 HP on tap. Which engine will have the most reliability at that power level? I know they're both awesome engines, but I'm having a really hard time trying to decide which to go with. I may end up having to grab an SC300 due to the cost difference between the two. Anyway, any help is appreciated!!

 

[Lextreme II]

V8/I6 which is a better platform to start with?
1uzfe

Which engine will have the most reliability at that power level?
1uzfe

cost difference between the two
about the same

The above questions are very general. You should ask like which one would be easier, which car has more after market support, What turbo kit is available to the car? which one would be cost effective for mods and so on. From your questions, my answers would be 1uzfe, but if u ask differently i would have different answers.

 

[zhagg]

Thanks for responding! Well, the reason I didn't ask those particualr questions was because I figured that due to the popularity of the Supra as a tuner car, the I6s receive much more support. My main concern is modifying the stock engine etc.

Will I need to do a Supra swap in order to get reliable HP (400-500 range) numbers from an SC300?
Is the 1uzfe an engine that does well under boost? From looking at some of the articles, it seems that it is. Since I'm so new to the whole thing, it's sorta hard for me to get a good gauge of how the engines behave after boost and what types of engine mgt. strategies I'll have to explore.
I have a standalone ECU for my B16 Honda. Is something like that available for the SC400? Will I even need it to get the 400/500 HP range that I seek? Will and SAFC or FMU work for me?
I'm willing to fab manifolds and whatever piping would be needed to turbo either engine. In fact, even if I had the SC300, I wouldn't plan on using a kit to go turbo.
I'll keep reading the various Tech projects that are underway and see if I can learn a thing or two... Thanks again!

 

[Lextreme II]

If you can do your own fab and you can do your own work, i think you will get much gratification doing a FI SC400 than SC300. Lots of go C300, but not the SC400. The rearity is the key and pound per pound is concern, 1uzfe is much stronger than 2jzge. I have heard the stock 1uz can handle about 700-800 hp.

 

[zhagg]

Wow!! 700-800 HP?? On the stock internals? What, just boosted or something? What type of boost and mods would it take to break 500 HP? My friend's getting a SC300 and going to turbo the 1jz. He thinks I'm sorta weird for wanting to custom fab my own turbo set up when the 1jz and especially the 2 jz have so much more support. I'm glad I stumbled on this site for sure!! BTW, I was reading another thread that mentioned modifying the combustion chamber quench areas to lower compression ratios... Any more details on that? Is there a write-up somewhere? Thanks in advance!!

 

[LEXUSV8NZ]

1JZ in the SC300?
the SC300 has the 2JZGE in it, not the 1JZGE or 1JZGTE

Your talking about modifiying the quench areas in the combustion chambers to lower compression? I wouldnt, from what Ive read it is very easy to destroy the chambers squish characteristics and therefore tyhe whole chamber design and its ability to make power reliably. I wouldnt suggest doing this unless you are very experienced at working/modifying heads (and even then I wouldnt advise it, you would be better off with some lower compression forged pistons)
Just my $0.02

Logan

 

[GSMnow]

From experience with other motors (I am new to the 1UZ and 2JZ also) the old hotrodder saying, "there is no replacement for displacement" still holds very true. Now when you are talking very small motors, you can rev the crap out of them and make some power, but that is not reality. The 2JZGTE is certainly a very capable motor, and will rev higher than a 1UZ due to the beter flowing "G" cylinder head. But it is just 3.0 litres. Even at 150 hp / litre you are just going to get 450 hp. To get 500 hp, the 4.0L 1UZ only needs to make 125 hp per litre. This is alot less stress on the internals. Even the first gen 1UZ from 1989 made 250 hp stock. 15 psi of boost and slightly lowered compression will easilly push that over 500 hp. This can be done on pump gas at 8.0 compression. The great 2JZ would have to push 17 to 20 psi of boost to get the same power, and it would end up with more lag since it has less off boost exhaust flow to spool it up.

The ultimat max power might go the the smaller 2JZ if you go with big cams, porting, mega boost, and screaming revs due to the strong iron block. The 1UZ is an aluminum block which actually weighs less and is shorter so it sits further back in the car. If your goal is an all around car, the V8 wins. IF you are searching for the 1/4 mile record, the 2JZ might win if money is no object. The biggest limiting factor I see in the 1UZ V8 is the cylinder head flow. Being a compact "F" head design, the ports are designed around lower rpm torque. This is not a bad thing for most uses though. My previous engine in my Celica was a 22RE. Talk about a tank of an engine designed for low revs. At 13 psi of boost though, that beast made 300 hp out of 2.4 litres. Hmm. That is the same power per litre needed to get 500 out of the 4.0L. I did that on 93 octane pump unleaded with a far crappier cylinder head than the bone stock 1UZ. Trying to run it on 91 octane proved to be it's death though. NOw a 1UZ V8 may be going in it's place.

Gary M.

 

[1UZ-MX83]

GSMnow wrote:

The ultimat max power might go the the smaller 2JZ if you go with big cams, porting, mega boost, and screaming revs due to the strong iron block.

I think the 1UZ is more than strong enough for BIG HP. The "Groundfighter" in the 'States made around 2000HP with a (admittedly highly modified) 1UZ.

 

[GSMnow]

At what point is the enging no longer a Toyota though? I'll bet the 2000 HP 1UZ is like the 500+ HP Honda B16 where it uses a billet machined block and forged unobtanium crank under a hand built billet cylinder head with actually no single part coming from Honda. What I was talking about was a stock block, crank, and head castings running on some semblance of normal gasoline. Even with extreme porting, the "F" type head might run into flow limitations where the "G" head 2JZ might rev enough higher to make as much power even with it's 1 litre defacite. The chamber design would probably also allow a bit more boost for a given fuel octane. There are also 1000 HP 2.0 litre motors, but you won't see any driving every day to the grocery store. A 500 hp 1UZ could do that. A 2JZ could probably also make close to a 500 hp daily driver as well.

The huge power billet motors usually don't have any water cooling jacket, since it only has to run for 1/4 mile at a time before it is shut down to cool off.

Gary M.

 

[zhagg]

1JZ in the SC300?
the SC300 has the 2JZGE in it, not the 1JZGE or 1JZGTE
Logan

I know. For some reason, he wants to go with the 1jzgte... I told him to just turbo the stock 2jz, but he's on his own planet... Can you think of any advantages to that? Are there problems that you know of with boosting the stock 2jz (other than typical N/A to F/I conversion issues...)?

Yeah, I don't think I'd be messing with the combustion chambers etc. That's just too crazy. I saw it on a thread and wanted to see if anyone else knew about it.

How problematic is boosting the stock engine without reducing C.R.? If I keep the boost low (under 12lbs.) and run premium gas, will I be OK?

 

[Zuffen]

You might, I repeat, might get away with 12lb if you had a very efficient intercooler.

The start compression is simply too high to run that sort of boost.

My suggestion would be to sit back for a few months and watch what Jordy, Steve, Quadcam boat and myself do with our superchargers. We are all (except Q/B who is going M90) following the the Eaton M112 path.

Jordy and Steve are working with Jaguar XKR units and I'm working with a Ford unit. All are intercooled (air/water) and look like we will all be running 9-11lb of boost.

I think Jordy will run stock compression ratio but reading Steve's article on Planet Soarer I suspect he will drop the compression ratio to 8-8.5:1. I am looking at the same drop.

We are all pioneering here so rather than re-invent the wheel why not wait and see what we all end up with. One good point of waiting is we spend the R & D dolars and you find out where our expensive failures were.

 

[1UZ-HZ]

GSMnow wrote:


I think the 1UZ is more than strong enough for BIG HP. The "Groundfighter" in the 'States made around 2000HP with a (admittedly highly modified) 1UZ.

Hmmm just having a look in an old street machine here;
"He toughened it up with cunningham billet rods, Venolia custom pistons, and personally ported and polished the heads." That was the list of internal mods, stock block and crank and slighty modded heads and 50psi of boost an easy 2000hp, 500hp probably wouldnt even stress the block

 

[GSMnow]

Hmmm just having a look in an old street machine here;
"He toughened it up with cunningham billet rods, Venolia custom pistons, and personally ported and polished the heads." That was the list of internal mods, stock block and crank and slighty modded heads and 50psi of boost an easy 2000hp, 500hp probably wouldnt even stress the block

50 psi of booost?? What doi they burn for fuel? All of the motors I have tuned were based on Chicago pump 93 Octane. The 91 octane of Topeka killed my previous motor, even with a richer mixture, reduced boost, and less timing advance. Fuel quality is certainly the limiting factor in cylinder pressure in a boosted engine. The bottom end of my 22RE probably would have taken 400+ hp at 20 psi of boost if I ran 115 octane fuel. The rings actually got smashed flat from the pinging. Amazingly nothing else failed, so I sold the motor to a guy in Oregon. I moved to California, and I knew I could not make that motor street legal here. This is why I am now looking into a 1UZ swap. I want close to 300 hp again, but fully CA emission legal. I guess I won't be running boost though. My other engine choice was a 1MZFE Camry V6 with a TRD blower. But I can probably pick up a good 1UZ for just the price of the blower kit.

Gary M.

 

[Drangdin]

Um 108 octane is pure octane. You can't have any higher than that. Not trying to be a smart ass but 115 can't chemically exist.