Hydraulic Supercharging

[jibbby]

The stock hydraulic fan pump produces alot of fluid push to drive those stockfans...A conversion could be made possilbe to drive or run an air forced induction system.....How could that be made to work is the question? I know you can by-pass the cooling system with electric fans and use the hydopump and the exiting two high pressure oil lines for something creative...Any thoughts?

 

[Nick M]

Use the engine to drive a pump that drives a blower? Why not just use the engine to drive the blower itself. Sounds highly ineffecient to me.

 

[jibbby]

You get a larger engine drag (Par. loss) off the engines crank pulley as apposed to the hydo pump engine drag...Example - I gained just a few ponies by deleting the hydro-pump and going with the dual electric fans as apposed to the larger gains I would have made on an older motor engine running with a fan clutch system... See the point.. Can this hydro pump be used for anything other than cooling?

My thoughts - Say your running the relatively small and weak Eaton M90 charger on the 1uz-fe engine and are somehow able to use the Hydro-pump to run the charger as apposed to the engines crank pulley? I would think you would free up some pretty good power if possible, no?

Just pondering further on this topic... Throwing some potential ideas out there for conversation... (50 or so hp drag to run a charger wide open as apposed to a 5hp loss or so with the hydraulic pump)....

 

[bango]

Good thinking..might be possible,we use hydrolics to power concrete cutting saws...only thing is the pump is big..

 

[Zuffen]

A supercharger at full boost can draw 100hp from the crank.

These pumps would be hard pressed to transfer a few horsepower.

You could perhaps delete the power steering pump and replace it with the hydro pump.

I haven't checked flow and pressure but that's about all I could see it doing.

Anyone have any thoughts on using it as a power steering pump. This could help out front mount turbo instals.

 

[jibbby]

Hydraulic power can be very impressive even on a small scale, for anyone that knows anything about hydraulics knows this....Just look at elevators, hydraulic machines, tools, etc...

Zuffen - I See your point and to be honest I don't know myself what kind of pressure and power can be generated out of the tiny Lexus stock hydro-pump...I think that little tid bit should be the first important peice of information too find out....

Any hydraulic experts in the House?:ugh2:

 

[WDoherty]

as lex suggested drop your car and a check off with him and get your turbo lexus off the ground built by the master himself, he is offering his services. bringing back the electric fan and hydralic pump make me worry, a turbo is always the most efficient.

 

[jibbby]

No problem...A signed blank check that is made out of rubber and will bounce higher then any ball known to man....Not a problem....

WD - I am interested in inventing something new, pondering on the what ifs, the possibilities, etc......Actually, I really am just probably throwing crap at a fan if you ask me:Flush: ...Actually MWP was throwing out the crap on this thread first.. See ya:tongue2:

 

[WDoherty]

haha, throwing crap at a fan i'm sure has provided hours of entertainment in my lifetime. I know what your saying on budget though. I'm ready to forget about this lexus and steal the 400sbc out of my old van, slap it in my 77 celica, and start from thier grass roots style just to have some speed, disregarding how its achieved.

 

[jibbby]

WD - Gotta start somewhere...Heck I started on a homemade go-cart with a 2.5 Hp Lawn mower engine to power it...I even created a high performance exhaust on the go-cart and it moved....It moved at like 5mph top speed.:burnout: .Too heavy I guess, Oh well.:dunno: I then tried to make a mini bike out of that same lawnmower engine and the frame snapped and I wiped out. I still have a scar on my knee from that tragedy...Needless to say I then gave up on the home made mini bikes specials....However, the go-cart I made out of 2 by 4 wood and encased ball bearing Dolley wheels worked out great though...I am still proud today of that crude design of mine that I created at age 13....

WD - Good luck with your 77 Small block project...We all must live within our meens or suffer the wrath of credit card debt...

 

[WDoherty]

funny, i used to do the go-cart modding also. Mine was single wheel drive so i bought a riding lawmower with blown engine from a friend's grandfather and with some help converted the go cart to a live axle with a differential (big upgrade), then i made a rip cord that attached the carb's throttle directly so when i maxed the governer i could pull the cord and that b&g would start screaming, lucky i didn't get a connecting rod through the head, i did all that around 13 as well. in regard to projects nah i'll be patient, i currently get my speed fix on one friend's honda 250r 2 stroke dirt bike and another's bored 2 stroke banshee four wheeler, they fly and that's about as close as i am getting any high performance machines at the moment.

 

[Kiwi.in.aus]

Most times hydraulics are used the calculation works the other way , you work out how much work the pump has to do and you get a motor powerful enough to drive it , if it's not enough just get a bigger one !!If it turns out you need more work done just get a bigger pump and a more powerful engine to drive it .
You are coming from the opposite direction , you need work done and want to use the most efficent way of doing it , hydraulic pumps and engines are not very efficient .
Your idea to use the hydraulic pump will never be as efficient as a direct drive from the crank , it's takes power to drive a pump , there are friction loss's driving fluid through a hose , there are friction loss's rotating a pumps bearings and the friction loss's on the seals on the shaft and so on and so on , not to mention the same loss's on the hydraulic engine .
Come on Jibby , get a bit practical .

 

[jibbby]

Right On Kiwi, just throwing crap at a fan....I will move on to the next mad scientist idea...:scared:

I would think there is way more drag coming from the crank itself then there would be from a hydraulic pump running off the crank to produce the same power...I believe that is one of the main reason the Lexus designers created the hydraulic pump to power up the cooling system. The other reason would be reduced noise... As everyone knows the stock cooling system on the early model SC400's and Soarer's are very effecient to say the least....Some people have described that cooling system as producing hurricane force winds. I deleted the pump and only gained just a few horsepower, maybe 5hp tops...Not much engine drag coming from the hydro-pump itself and that is fact....Moving the cooling fans I would have thought would take almost or around the same amount of power as it would to move a small charger or atleast maybe the power steering...My crude thinking would be - Remove the fan blades, then turn the actual fan motor around that is powered by the hydro pump and mount it to hook up and power the charger. Then find away to control the hydro puump speed...Apparently the fan motor and hydro pump is simply not strong enough to turn the charger...That was my thinking anyway...

WD - My go-cart had a single axle to go to both rear axles (via the detroit locker LSD's, he he) then had the chain drive hooked up to the welded axle sprocket then to the 2.5hp engine. The throttle was controlled by the thumb..Much like mini-bikes...Creating the steering was the hardest task on that crude design....

 

[Nick M]

I see it is already covered. Negative entropy is not possible.

edit: yes, keep the ideas flowing

 

[Lextreme II]

It cost too much energy and it doesn't produce enoungh cfm to make your butts happy.

 

[Hatch]

As the go kart engine has been mentioned,
Why not use a small supplemantary engine to drive the compressor.( turbo or mechanical)

Easy to maintain boost electronically and via wastegates independent of your regular engine.

The possibilities are endless, a small tubocharged diesel just to drive the turbo. running at it's most efficient rev range.

No spool time , huge torque from 0 revs etc.

who's up for it?