How Good is Your Tuner?
- Thread starter Zuffen
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Yes Scott has tuned some very good Autronic monitored cars.. I think from memory Bewarned was tuned by Scott...
on a turbo 1uz run your aiming for
13:1 power not under boost
14.4-15:1 light cruise
12.8:1 up to 5-6 psi
tapering to 12:1 up to 1 bar
obviously there is a lot of transents to setup as well as advance settings
cheers
wayne ...
kelvins inhouse tuner
Just re-reading this.... my late night post is a bit economical on words, so just clarifying there's no criticism implied or intended....just a query and guide
XR8tt
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Yea I know several guys trying to run high performance engines with std ECU and in most cases it doesn't work especially when engine has forced induction..One GOOD thing about turners listed .. Generally if you go back for a re tune ?? They charge very little..
Yes Scott has tuned some very good Autronic monitored cars.. I think from memory Bewarned was tuned by Scott...
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My car sat at Yavuz's for a month (I was away on holidays) as he didn't have all the engine specs.
When I dropped the car I told him the specs were on a printed A4 page in the centre console.
I even went as far as telling him the make and grade of oil and how much fuel, and what brand and grade was in the tank together with the water/meth mix and how much was in that tank.
He couldn't finish the tune because the car was losing voltage over 5,000rpm but it was crap up to 5,000rpm anyway so the loss of power was academic.
When I dropped the car I told him the specs were on a printed A4 page in the centre console.
I even went as far as telling him the make and grade of oil and how much fuel, and what brand and grade was in the tank together with the water/meth mix and how much was in that tank.
He couldn't finish the tune because the car was losing voltage over 5,000rpm but it was crap up to 5,000rpm anyway so the loss of power was academic.
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We spent a couple of hours today playing with the tune.
First task was to relocate the dyno because my car wouldn't fit on the machine without either removing the roof of the dyno cell or cutting the roll cage off my car.
We opted to use a fork lift and relocate the dyno into the general work area of the workshop.
Nothing like a co-operative shop owner!
After getting it to idle again we fiddled with the fuel map.
At present we have reduced fuel load by around 70% over the tune left in the ECU.
The car will now run to 4,000rpm without dipping below double digit AFR's(super rich) and is actually running in the 12's which is pretty good.
No power figures to talk about as we haven't done any WOT runs. 119HP is the top figure so far (a little less than a stock 1UZ!!) but we haven't been trying for power rather AFR's to make the engine survive.
We gave the engine it's 4th oil change in 200km and it was mostly fuel.
I guess my last tuner left me with a few problems. Thinking about it I feel the tune I have is the tune I had when I delivered the car to the last tuner and he has the correct tune saved in his computer so he can upload it to my ECU if he ever sees it again. That's the only excuse I can come up with for the tune that was in the ECU.
First task was to relocate the dyno because my car wouldn't fit on the machine without either removing the roof of the dyno cell or cutting the roll cage off my car.
We opted to use a fork lift and relocate the dyno into the general work area of the workshop.
Nothing like a co-operative shop owner!
After getting it to idle again we fiddled with the fuel map.
At present we have reduced fuel load by around 70% over the tune left in the ECU.
The car will now run to 4,000rpm without dipping below double digit AFR's(super rich) and is actually running in the 12's which is pretty good.
No power figures to talk about as we haven't done any WOT runs. 119HP is the top figure so far (a little less than a stock 1UZ!!) but we haven't been trying for power rather AFR's to make the engine survive.
We gave the engine it's 4th oil change in 200km and it was mostly fuel.
I guess my last tuner left me with a few problems. Thinking about it I feel the tune I have is the tune I had when I delivered the car to the last tuner and he has the correct tune saved in his computer so he can upload it to my ECU if he ever sees it again. That's the only excuse I can come up with for the tune that was in the ECU.
JustenGT8
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At least you know you have plenty of injector Rod
So when's the plan to get down to serious business?
So when's the plan to get down to serious business?
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Rod, I think many of these tuners are the same the world over. They just can't seem to get AFR's and driveability correct, and leave the car rich and undriveable. I just don't know how some of these guys sleep at night.....
Anyway, good luck with your new guy.
Anyway, good luck with your new guy.
gloverman
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if you tune for driveability and good afr's .. the power figures come by themselves
on a turbo 1uz run your aiming for
13:1 power not under boost
14.4-15:1 light cruise
12.8:1 up to 5-6 psi
tapering to 12:1 up to 1 bar
obviously there is a lot of transents to setup as well as advance settings
cheers
wayne ...
kelvins inhouse tuner
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Thursday is the next session.
We started with 10:1 ratios and we're out at 12.5:1 at the moment. It was so rich we all had red eyes from the gas.
The chart we started with was like a roller coaster.
Now it looks sensible.
We struck a minor glitch where one of the intercooler pipes is stretching a silicone joint making the the pipe moves foward where it pases under the supercharger snout and forces the drive belt to skip across the grooves. I can restrain the pipe temporailly and do a permanent fix later. Last run last night we ended up with only 4 of the 8 grooves on the pulleys.
Coolant temp hasn't gone above 80dgreesC and intake temps have hovered arouund 62degreesC which is at least 50degreesC lower than before the intercooler went on.
Its all looking promising.
We started with 10:1 ratios and we're out at 12.5:1 at the moment. It was so rich we all had red eyes from the gas.
The chart we started with was like a roller coaster.
Now it looks sensible.
We struck a minor glitch where one of the intercooler pipes is stretching a silicone joint making the the pipe moves foward where it pases under the supercharger snout and forces the drive belt to skip across the grooves. I can restrain the pipe temporailly and do a permanent fix later. Last run last night we ended up with only 4 of the 8 grooves on the pulleys.
Coolant temp hasn't gone above 80dgreesC and intake temps have hovered arouund 62degreesC which is at least 50degreesC lower than before the intercooler went on.
Its all looking promising.
JustenGT8
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Bring on Thurs and some big numbers
Sounds like you're well on the right track this time around Rod and i'm praying to the god of automobilia for you
Sounds like you're well on the right track this time around Rod and i'm praying to the god of automobilia for you
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Another day on the rollers and another couple of problems.
1st problem is the engine looses power for no apparent reason and runs super rich, but the O2 sensors says it's around 12.1:1!
After a lot of testing we've figured out the TPS is faulty. We can get it to read 100% on WOT but then it will drop to 0% whilst the throttle is still held wide open for no apparent reason. We have a new one on order and hope to fit it tomorrow.
The other roblem is one side of the engine is running richer than the other. Fortunately the O2 sensor was on the lean bank.
When I designed the fuel system I used 2 Bosch 044 pumps with each pump feeding one side of the engine. It looks like one pump runs a little more pressure than the other.
The balance between the rails is taken care of at the FPR but we feel this is too small and not allowing the rails to balance.
We intend to join the two fuel lines so we have 2x9mm hoses going therough a "Y" piece into a 12mm hose than back to 2x9mm hoses. This will allow the two pumps to equalise and work as one when the fuel arrives at the rails.
We figure this will solve some of the overfueling.
At 3,500 we had 187WHP so about 260FWHP which 10FWHP up on factory. Never met such expensive horses in my life!
We figure once we have those two problems out of the way things will improve.
At this point we have AFR's of 11:1 up until 1,500rpm and then it drops quickly to 12.1:1 and hovers around there until 4,000rpm. We haven't gone past 4,000rpm yet..
The torque curve has fattened up nicely so do expect to see some good numbers once it is sorted.
I'm in no rush so I'm happy.
1st problem is the engine looses power for no apparent reason and runs super rich, but the O2 sensors says it's around 12.1:1!
After a lot of testing we've figured out the TPS is faulty. We can get it to read 100% on WOT but then it will drop to 0% whilst the throttle is still held wide open for no apparent reason. We have a new one on order and hope to fit it tomorrow.
The other roblem is one side of the engine is running richer than the other. Fortunately the O2 sensor was on the lean bank.
When I designed the fuel system I used 2 Bosch 044 pumps with each pump feeding one side of the engine. It looks like one pump runs a little more pressure than the other.
The balance between the rails is taken care of at the FPR but we feel this is too small and not allowing the rails to balance.
We intend to join the two fuel lines so we have 2x9mm hoses going therough a "Y" piece into a 12mm hose than back to 2x9mm hoses. This will allow the two pumps to equalise and work as one when the fuel arrives at the rails.
We figure this will solve some of the overfueling.
At 3,500 we had 187WHP so about 260FWHP which 10FWHP up on factory. Never met such expensive horses in my life!
We figure once we have those two problems out of the way things will improve.
At this point we have AFR's of 11:1 up until 1,500rpm and then it drops quickly to 12.1:1 and hovers around there until 4,000rpm. We haven't gone past 4,000rpm yet..
The torque curve has fattened up nicely so do expect to see some good numbers once it is sorted.
I'm in no rush so I'm happy.
JustenGT8
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That isn't a WOT at 3500rpm though eh? Should be making good boost? which should mean at least twice that power?
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Sounds like a typical dyno session Rod. Hang in there (as you've advised me several times!) Just work through each of the gremlins as they come up and you'll triumph over Murphy in the end.
JustenGT8
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Just re-reading this.... my late night post is a bit economical on words, so just clarifying there's no criticism implied or intended....just a query and guide
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Justen,
I'll take all and any suggestions and no offence was taken.
We have boost of 20psi but the TPS is reading 40% at WOT and can drop to zero.
When we do a power run it goes well until around 3,000rpm and then goes down hill from there.
I would have expected more than the 187 we got but if the TPS is giving misleading signals then there may be a lot more to be had from what we have.
I picked up a new TPS this afternoon and we'll have the car back on the rollers Tuesday.
I'll be videoing some of it so I'll try to post up a power run or two.
I'll take all and any suggestions and no offence was taken.
We have boost of 20psi but the TPS is reading 40% at WOT and can drop to zero.
When we do a power run it goes well until around 3,000rpm and then goes down hill from there.
I would have expected more than the 187 we got but if the TPS is giving misleading signals then there may be a lot more to be had from what we have.
I picked up a new TPS this afternoon and we'll have the car back on the rollers Tuesday.
I'll be videoing some of it so I'll try to post up a power run or two.
hypronet
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hi rod,
R u still using the original 02 sensor or a new 1?
i know that when we started to tune my fresh engine, we used new sensors to tune on.
your afr is a bit on the high side, when tuning are you using load on the dnyo or not?
what is the afr on idle?
i have 15:1 on idle an light throttle, 13.5:1 on 50% load an 12.5:1 on full load an wot.
check your fpr an see what psi it is set at, may be a bit too high which may run it richer.
what type of spark plugs r you using, r they 1 or 2 stages cooler then std an what do they look like after a power run?
____________________________________________
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
[FONT="]:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!![/FONT]:sgrin::burnout:
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi, Torsen Lsd,
Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
R u still using the original 02 sensor or a new 1?
i know that when we started to tune my fresh engine, we used new sensors to tune on.
your afr is a bit on the high side, when tuning are you using load on the dnyo or not?
what is the afr on idle?
i have 15:1 on idle an light throttle, 13.5:1 on 50% load an 12.5:1 on full load an wot.
check your fpr an see what psi it is set at, may be a bit too high which may run it richer.
what type of spark plugs r you using, r they 1 or 2 stages cooler then std an what do they look like after a power run?
____________________________________________
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
[FONT="]:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!![/FONT]:sgrin::burnout:
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi, Torsen Lsd,
Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller
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Checked fuel pressure yesterday and found it to be 20psi running. Increased to 45psi at idle so that's another problem sorted.
I ran new fuel lines from the two pumps that now join into a 1/2" line before splitting in the engine bay to the rails. Also now feed fuel from the front of the rail and take the return from the rear of the rails.
Fitted a new TPS yesterday and found it was giving weird signals. When I removed it from the t/b is was knackered inside. Don't know why it failed but I have a new one on order and hopefully we will fit it on Tuesday, after a lot of testign to ensure it is working and ensuring it interfaces with the t/b correctly. It fits easilly enough but we feel we may be over-rotating it at WOT which means it is partially rotated at idle. Perhaps the t/b doesn't have the mounting holes correctly aligned or the chamfer on the shaft is slightly off. The t/b is a F.A.S.T. 100mm unit so it should all work but who knows.
Plugs are 2 steps colder than standard. They look fine after a power run.
AFR's could still be a little rich but I wouldn't like to drift out past 13:1 at any point. I think 15:1 at idle is really lean.
I think we're winning the battle and if we can get the TPS to function we should finally see some numbers worth seeing.
I ran new fuel lines from the two pumps that now join into a 1/2" line before splitting in the engine bay to the rails. Also now feed fuel from the front of the rail and take the return from the rear of the rails.
Fitted a new TPS yesterday and found it was giving weird signals. When I removed it from the t/b is was knackered inside. Don't know why it failed but I have a new one on order and hopefully we will fit it on Tuesday, after a lot of testign to ensure it is working and ensuring it interfaces with the t/b correctly. It fits easilly enough but we feel we may be over-rotating it at WOT which means it is partially rotated at idle. Perhaps the t/b doesn't have the mounting holes correctly aligned or the chamfer on the shaft is slightly off. The t/b is a F.A.S.T. 100mm unit so it should all work but who knows.
Plugs are 2 steps colder than standard. They look fine after a power run.
AFR's could still be a little rich but I wouldn't like to drift out past 13:1 at any point. I think 15:1 at idle is really lean.
I think we're winning the battle and if we can get the TPS to function we should finally see some numbers worth seeing.
JustenGT8
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Good catch on the fuel pressure, that wouldn't have helped tuning...what fuel reg?
15:1 at idle is fine mate, fine for cruise also....you want a good transition to boost though so clean and fast response MAP signal ie shortest line you can run and no other lines running off it. One of the tricky bits of tuning SC i think is boost transition is so quick.
15:1 at idle is fine mate, fine for cruise also....you want a good transition to boost though so clean and fast response MAP signal ie shortest line you can run and no other lines running off it. One of the tricky bits of tuning SC i think is boost transition is so quick.
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Justen,
Thanks for the input.
Fuel pressure will allow us to establish a more rational tune.
I guess I go back to carby's with richer idle. Problem with being old is you keep going back to your basics!
The Map line is over a metre long as the ECU is mounted on the trans tunnel. It also feeds the WI computer but that line is only a couple of hundred millametres long.
We'll get there but the poor tuner has had my car on his dyno for almost a week now. Fortunately he's easy going and I tend to help in the shop when I'm there so I guess I'm (sort of) paying my way as well.
Thanks for the input.
Fuel pressure will allow us to establish a more rational tune.
I guess I go back to carby's with richer idle. Problem with being old is you keep going back to your basics!
The Map line is over a metre long as the ECU is mounted on the trans tunnel. It also feeds the WI computer but that line is only a couple of hundred millametres long.
We'll get there but the poor tuner has had my car on his dyno for almost a week now. Fortunately he's easy going and I tend to help in the shop when I'm there so I guess I'm (sort of) paying my way as well.
JustenGT8
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1 meter is fine but i'd find a separate source for the WI computer.
Initially my ECU was under the passenger seat and i'd get a tiny amount of det with sharp boost increases as the MAP feed was delayed by that fraction of a second. I moved the ECU to the firewall (inside) which shortened the line a heap and gave it it's own feed and all good. My boost response is very good but still won't be as quick as what you'll have with the twinscrew....everything you can do to get that clean, fast signal will be worth it
Initially my ECU was under the passenger seat and i'd get a tiny amount of det with sharp boost increases as the MAP feed was delayed by that fraction of a second. I moved the ECU to the firewall (inside) which shortened the line a heap and gave it it's own feed and all good. My boost response is very good but still won't be as quick as what you'll have with the twinscrew....everything you can do to get that clean, fast signal will be worth it
