FI M112 difficulty VVTI VS. NonVVTI

[pres6]

well so i have decided after 5yrs of driving crappy cars to be able to keep the dream of building my MKIII supra, i am going a different direction...

been looking to buy a LS400, but cannot decide what year, i know 90-93 is the desired engine for non-VVTI, but i really like the 98's body style..

so my question to all you incredibly knowledgeable folks out there in Lexus land is:
how much easier or more difficult is it to run a M112 on the VVTI VS the Non-VVTI? computer issues, max boost on stock motor, etc.. on the mechanical installation side, i am not worried about fitment or pulley config as i can handle that stuff easy, but when you start to get into fuel, air, timing, it can get much more complicated and much more expensive..
your thoughts please gentlemen?

 

[spf_lexus]

Max boost is your biggest problem for VVT-i. If you really like the 2nd gen LS400 just find one with a blown engine and swap over an early one... plus you could pick the car up for very cheap. If you really want to sueprcharge the VVt-i then i would keep boost at 6psi because your stock rods cant handle any more power. As for fitment once you have the manifold it's cake from there on in. I would say

However an early non vvti (1990-1994) will take 14psi stock with a good tune.

 

[Lextreme II]

I dont think the supercharger manifold for VVTi is available yet. Few guys are working on them but nothing solid i have seen. So, 98 and up LS400 should be out of the question for NOW. Secondly, OBDI vs. OBDII and how computer control involved. I would recommend get a 1993-1994 (better brake) and put in a supercharger. 1995 to 1997 has skinny rods and 1998 and higher are VVTi. 1990-1992 has smaller brake. So 1993-1994 would be your best bet.

 

[pres6]

i knew that would be the answer...darn...
i love the pre-95's, but it is so hard to find one in really good condition, would really like to NOT have to do any paint or body work. and the newer interior shifter is so much prettier..

SPF- will the 98+ ecu control the old non-VVTI blocks? how much extra involved to make it run like stock?

Lex- i may start looking for a 93-94, they are half the cost or less than the 98+, means i could afford to do the things i wanted to it.. maybe even fix whatever bothered me in the inside.

i need this to be a daily driver, so i would not ever run over 8psi, really want it to last a long time, and finally be driving something i can be proud of, it has been 10yrs since i have had a driver i enjoyed driving..

 

[spf_lexus]

easiest way to get the vvti in a 1st gen is to buy the engine/trans with ECU and harness and do a complete swap. 98 ECU will only work for that engine, plus 1st gen is obd1 and 2nd is obd2. whole package should cost like 2grand... still much cheaper than a 98.


I have seen lots of clean 1st gen LS400's on autotrader and craigs list. Happy Hunting.

 

[pres6]

ya, i looked on autotrader this morning (i work for them as an IT guy) there is alot of the older out there, and alot look good, just cannot get past all the features in the 98+...

well, have a month or two until i purchase one, so i am sure i will go back and forth on it...

if you put the OBDI ecu in a OBDII car, will it pass inspection?

6psi on a 98+ would be about 60hp at the crank right? or 80? cannot remember.. that with there being no current manifold for the VVTI and screw SC's makes it hard to enjoy dreaming about it.

Thanks to both of you for the fast replies, good to know there are still good people on here, even after a few years of not being active on here myself.
JC

 

[Lextreme II]

VVTi swap is more complicated than that. Security system will disable the possibility of starting. Prepare for a long down time. Fuse box and plugs doesnt match up. Throttle cable is different in length.

 

[pres6]

and the list of changes would go on forever i am sure...
well for now i have to wait anyway,
if i can find a great deal, really great deal on a 98+ i may just buy and drive with very little modding.

but if i find a really clean 93-94 black on black... that will be the winner..
only time will tell

 

[spf_lexus]

Np, im stuck in a blizzard with just my computer so I dont have much goin' on. My bad on the swap, never thought about the security system. You could still run the 98 on high boost by swapping 1st gen rods or Lex's chevy rods to allow high hp. You would basically rebuild the block and rebalance to accept the heavier rods but this is easier and cheaper than engine swap. the 2 engines are pretty interchangeable. I currently have a 4.7L bottom end with 4.0L rods, sourcing early 1uz rods gives best of both worlds.

 

[pres6]

ya, a buddy of mine is still holding a short block i bought 5 yrs ago, i think he still has it... if i remember right it was a 92 SC400 block (front sump), it would mean i already had some larger rods and block.. means i could pull the rods, or build the block.. still the issue of no current FI manifold for the vvti...

just for grins.. the VVTI will takme 6psi with no ecu or fuel mods? or will still need an FPR?

 

[stevechumo]

6psi on a 98+ would be about 60hp at the crank right? or 80? cannot remember.. that with there being no current manifold for the VVTI and screw SC's makes it hard to enjoy dreaming about it....

With the correct setup, 1 psi should make an addition of 20 hp to the crank. You're talking about 120 more hp, and that's with the non VVTI. VVTI should make more power due to better head flow.

 

[pres6]

so, is the only difference the intake port shapes / locations?

 

[pres6]

well, the boss says i need to buy a 98+ just based on it being a daily driver.. so there goes getting one to immediately SC,
and my buddy that has my old 92SC400 1UZ wants to give it back, never even got a chance to ask..
so i will very slowly start building the bottom end of the motor and some day the 98 will need a bottom end.
why do all my projects end in "Someday" oh ya,, thats right, i have 2 kids...

 

[spf_lexus]

seriously all u need for reliable power is a set of early rods and a rebalance. The rest will take a beating.

 

[Lextreme II]

Here is a successful GS430 with a supercharger http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11771&highlight=supercharged+gs430

 

[pres6]

ya, thats a centrifugal though, nothing wrong with that, just not my direction...

so, on a 93-94 (finally convinced the boss to let me get a 93-94) how bad is the hood clearance on a m112? or does anyone know?

 

[stevechumo]

ya, thats a centrifugal though, nothing wrong with that, just not my direction...

so, on a 93-94 (finally convinced the boss to let me get a 93-94) how bad is the hood clearance on a m112? or does anyone know?

I think nobody knows for sure unless it's really fitted. You can always put a hood scoop on.

 

[hypronet]

hi guys,

Bulletcars over here in Australia do provide all types off supercharger kits for the 1UZ and 2UZ motors with an without water intercoolers?
Here is a link to there site that show all types of kits for different superchargers including Ford Lightning M112.
http://www.bulletcars.com/superchargers/toyota/budget-toyota-1uz-v8-supercharger-system.html

They also do kits for all other types of toyota engines as well http://www.bulletcars.com/superchargers/toyota/

Not sure on what the clearance will be on a SC400, but on a LS400 it will be a tight fit, i have a whipple w200ax (3.3ltr supercharger) on a richwood manifold and the sc pulley fouled on the bonnet, so i have to use a scoop to cover it.

____________________________________
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9037
[FONT=&quot]:sgrin:There is No substitute for cubic inch, except for BOOST !!!![/FONT]:sgrin::burnout:
"91 LS400" Argo rods, CP pistons 9:1, Custom Tighte Cams, Whipple supercharger 20psi, Torsen Lsd,
Dual TB's, Whiteline swapbars, 97 RZ Supra brakes, Airbag & controller

 

[pres6]

Steve - agreed, so atleast here in a month or two when i pull my money out of this house i will know for sure and have a nice little build diary here, have wanted to do this for years, but my dreams of my old supra kept me from it, now with 2 kiddos the supra is out of the question, 4Door sleeper, here we come..

Hypronet - i can only hope my scoop comes out as nice as yours does, i have alot of experience with fiberglass, so i may try to mold a hood with a hump or a scoop to avoid the issues with alloy VS steel scoops, but thats the beauty of fiber glass, its cheap and if it looks like crap when i am done, i can just pop the steely back on with a scoop

 

[stevechumo]

I'm tempted to put the M112 on another SC as well, but there's no room for another car. I've seen Ebay has a couple of nice ones for less than $500.