Fan relocation in sc400

[miwise]

I was looking at the sc430 tt project linked on lextreme's homepage. I noticed that the 430 has front mounted fans. I believe this is ideal b/c it clears up a lot of room b/w the radiator and engine. In my car, there is a lot of wasted space b/w the nose of the car and the radiator and though this might be a good mod for the sc400. This would alow twin turbos to be mounted in similar locations to the sc430 tt project car's. I know there's a kit to convert the hydraulic fan to electric, but is there a front mounted electric fan that would work? One similar to the 430? For simplicity, here's the link to the 430tt project: http://www.lextreme.com/sc430tt.html

See the pictures starting a little more than 1/2 way down. You'll see how the fans are mounted. I thought this would be a really clean way of doing a 400.

 

[jibbby]

miwise - I can see you are trying to get an idea on how you are going to boost...

To free up space you can install dual electric fans on the SC's and LS's. Flex-a-lite fans work great and free up crazy space for turbo's...There is a thread called "10-20hp gains with flex-a-lite fans".. That is my thread on how to perform the swap...You may need to be a paid member to view....It will answer all your questions, many detailed pics, and problem sovleing discussions... It's a gem of a thread to do this swap...

This is what you will get, here is a pic of my Sc400 and the freed space after the dual fan swap...

Flex-a-lite fans can be purchased for like $250....


PS - That's a nice picture link of a Lexus twin SC430 and David the mastermind of this forum......

 

[miwise]

looks very nice. Maybe there's a way to mount it in front of the radiator for even more room. From a maintenence standpoint, turbo seems to be a nightmare. Hard to access belts, exhaust coming very close to a/c compressor and power steering pump and lines for these. I emailed a guy in florida who did the sc400tt to see if he is able to duplicate same headers. I think this is the biggest problem with doing turbo on this car. That and all the hydraulic and a/c lines going everywhere. I'm definitely going to convert to an electric fan b/c even if I wind up having to go with supercharging the car, it will free up room to work on the front of the engine.

 

[stevechumo]

Check out Jibby's thread here: http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4348. Mounting the fan in front of the radiator is fine, but you'll meet other issues if you'll run a supercharger. You may not have enough room for the intercooler or a tranny cooler. The fans might get dirty with everything coming at it from the front and they might not last long. Mounting the electric fans behind the radiator will still give you more than enough room for supercharger or turbocharger. It'll give you less work by doing this.

I'm not saying that you're wrong about the maintenance of a turbo system, but there're many incorrect thoughts about a turbo system generally. Basically, the turbo system doesn't require any special care or expensive maintaining parts. It only requires regular 3000 miles oil change with synthetic oil. Also, if the turbo itself has both water & oil cooling, then you're fine. If it doesn't have water cooling, then a turbo timer should be needed, although not necessarily. A turbo timer will keep the engine running for 30 seconds or a little more after the ignition key is turned off and removed. What it does is it'll extend the time for the engine to circulate the hot oil to cool the turbo. Other than these, it's the same as the supercharger.

Ryan "SC400TT"'s turbo sytem is harder to make because he's running big twin turbos and his goal is 1000 hp. Therefore, he had to relocate many things. If you only consider street hp, let's say 400-500 hp, then a basic system is ok. Check this out for an ongoing turbo system building: http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7031.

 

[miwise]

That looks like a promising thread, but I still face the dilemna of how to get the headers fabricated. I'm going to check an exhaust shop out tomorrow (out of school for MLK), but I'm leary about just welding a bunch of pipes together. I'd like it to be as close to a factory aftermarket as possible. Anyways, I'm going to check with a couple of them tomorrow. A guy named Tran is going to hopefully go be helping me with some of the work. He's really good with toyotas (he had an sc300 and now has a bad supra that's really fast) and I think he knows what he's doing. He asked me to try and find a prefabbed kit, but I haven't found even prefabbed headers for turbo app. Anyways, I'm going to take a few of these sites with me on my laptop and let him read over them so he can see what I need. The fabrication is a bit over my head (I can't weld).

 

[jibbby]

Sorry bro there are no pre-fabbed turbo kits specially made for our SC's....There are supercharger kits, but no turbo kits that I am aware of...Pre-fabbing turbo exhaust piping for an SC turbo will definetely be a custom job...

It sounds to me like your not trying to smoke the competition, so I would suggest just doing your entire exhaust, intake, ECU and torque converter...You should then be-able to run with the stock camaro's and mustangs...Try that for starters to see if you then like the results, and you will see good N/A results...

 

[jibbby]

Sorry bro there are no pre-fabbed turbo kits specially made for our SC's....There are supercharger kits, but no turbo kits that I am aware of...Pre-fabbing turbo exhaust piping for an SC turbo will definetely be a custom job...

It sounds to me like your not trying to smoke the competition, so I would suggest just doing your entire exhaust, intake, ECU and torque converter...You should then be-able to run with the stock camaro's and mustangs...Try that for starters to see if you then like the results, and you will see good N/A results...

 

[stevechumo]

That looks like a promising thread, but I still face the dilemna of how to get the headers fabricated. I'm going to check an exhaust shop out tomorrow (out of school for MLK), but I'm leary about just welding a bunch of pipes together. I'd like it to be as close to a factory aftermarket as possible. Anyways, I'm going to check with a couple of them tomorrow. A guy named Tran is going to hopefully go be helping me with some of the work. He's really good with toyotas (he had an sc300 and now has a bad supra that's really fast) and I think he knows what he's doing. He asked me to try and find a prefabbed kit, but I haven't found even prefabbed headers for turbo app. Anyways, I'm going to take a few of these sites with me on my laptop and let him read over them so he can see what I need. The fabrication is a bit over my head (I can't weld).

Miwise,
If you want to go the N/A, that's fine. However, Lextreme and I are thinking about making a good ready turbo kit for the SC400. And then, any SC400 owners can enjoy the power. This ready kit will be better than mine, because mine is a cost saving kit.

 

[stevechumo]

That looks like a promising thread, but I still face the dilemna of how to get the headers fabricated. I'm going to check an exhaust shop out tomorrow (out of school for MLK), but I'm leary about just welding a bunch of pipes together. I'd like it to be as close to a factory aftermarket as possible. Anyways, I'm going to check with a couple of them tomorrow. A guy named Tran is going to hopefully go be helping me with some of the work. He's really good with toyotas (he had an sc300 and now has a bad supra that's really fast) and I think he knows what he's doing. He asked me to try and find a prefabbed kit, but I haven't found even prefabbed headers for turbo app. Anyways, I'm going to take a few of these sites with me on my laptop and let him read over them so he can see what I need. The fabrication is a bit over my head (I can't weld).

Miwise,
If you want to go the N/A, that's fine. However, Lextreme and I are thinking about making a good ready turbo kit for the SC400. And then, any SC400 owners can enjoy the power. This ready kit will be better than mine, because mine is a cost saving kit.

 

[miwise]

When will it be available? Is this kit going to be better than a supercharger alternative? Is the major benefit of turbo increased fuel economy aside from the higher boost potential? How do I get my hands on this kit and do you know what the cost will be? I'm assuming its a single turbo. I know the differences b/w superchargers and turbos, but my main concern is which is best for me. superchargers have a max psi they can produce b/c of the fact they are belt driven whereas turbos have a higher max b/c of being turbine driven. I understand that much. My main concerns are: fuel economy (I drive the car to school everyday) to an extent. . .preferrably over 18mpg or better hwy, impressive performance (obviously), and reliability. Does the turbo offer something in these areas that the supercharger does not?

btw, is this the same kit currently in development from the main homepage? Just curious. If it is, then I think I already found answers to my questions. Price for it is 4.5-5.0 thousand, right? When will it be finished?

 

[miwise]

When will it be available? Is this kit going to be better than a supercharger alternative? Is the major benefit of turbo increased fuel economy aside from the higher boost potential? How do I get my hands on this kit and do you know what the cost will be? I'm assuming its a single turbo. I know the differences b/w superchargers and turbos, but my main concern is which is best for me. superchargers have a max psi they can produce b/c of the fact they are belt driven whereas turbos have a higher max b/c of being turbine driven. I understand that much. My main concerns are: fuel economy (I drive the car to school everyday) to an extent. . .preferrably over 18mpg or better hwy, impressive performance (obviously), and reliability. Does the turbo offer something in these areas that the supercharger does not?

btw, is this the same kit currently in development from the main homepage? Just curious. If it is, then I think I already found answers to my questions. Price for it is 4.5-5.0 thousand, right? When will it be finished?

 

[stevechumo]

If you're looking for a 18 mpg or better, then there's no forced induction is the answer for you. It'll approximately gp down to 13 mpg or lower. More power = more gas. However, a turbo system won't waste that much hp to make power, which means more gas is saved than a supercharger system. Reliability will certainly be an issue, but nothing will be harmful if things are taken care of in the correct way. It's just normal as a normal car.

This kit will be somewhat similar to the one from the main page, but with a smaller turbo. It'll be for daily street driving and not for drag. The price will be at least $3,500 and a little more. I don't know when a production kit will be finished, but it'll be soon. I need to concentrate on my kit first.

 

[stevechumo]

If you're looking for a 18 mpg or better, then there's no forced induction is the answer for you. It'll approximately gp down to 13 mpg or lower. More power = more gas. However, a turbo system won't waste that much hp to make power, which means more gas is saved than a supercharger system. Reliability will certainly be an issue, but nothing will be harmful if things are taken care of in the correct way. It's just normal as a normal car.

This kit will be somewhat similar to the one from the main page, but with a smaller turbo. It'll be for daily street driving and not for drag. The price will be at least $3,500 and a little more. I don't know when a production kit will be finished, but it'll be soon. I need to concentrate on my kit first.

 

[miwise]

cool, thanks for the info. I just thought that at normal highway speed under no boost conditions it would be close to a natually aspirated engine. It uses that much more fuel even when boost isn't on?

 

[miwise]

cool, thanks for the info. I just thought that at normal highway speed under no boost conditions it would be close to a natually aspirated engine. It uses that much more fuel even when boost isn't on?

 

[stevechumo]

cool, thanks for the info. I just thought that at normal highway speed under no boost conditions it would be close to a natually aspirated engine. It uses that much more fuel even when boost isn't on?

Under normal highway speed, it's not close to a N/A engine but it's not burning gas as much as at WOT comparing to a N/A engine. This actually varies due to the setup such as high boost, low boost, the fuel/timing system, turbo, or supercharger...etc. Each system burns gas differently from the others. It'll take a long time to explain in details about this. The main key is if you're not willing to use the FI setup, then why install it. However, there's an answer to your gas efficiency but you'll get the power. It's the NOS system. You're totally at your N/A condition when you're not using NOS at all. The fuel is increased along with the NOS.

 

[miwise]

It's not that I don't want to use the FI setup. It's just that I won't be needing continuous boost. If I could drive 160 all the way to work, I may need continuous boost. Speed limits are 55, even out here in the country, and the roads I travel aren't the best so 65 to 70 (and that's pushing it with the number of police that travel these roads) is the fastest I go on these roads. I like the fact that turbo and supercharging give continuous power. It may sound a bit egotistical, but the main reason I want the turbo is b/c I want the bragging rights of having a fast car. When I bought the car I thought it would be fast mainly b/c it has a v8. Its not too slow, but I thought it would be faster. I'm just trying to make it live up to my expectations. I'm not going to race at every red light, but if someone challenges me I want to win. This is the first car I've ever had that is a true sports car. Never had a fast car before. The only other v8's I've ever had were in a truck and a large car, a 96 Dodge Ram extended cab when in college and a 93 Caprice Classic when I was in high school. Other than that the fastest car I've had beside this one is the 2002 Grand Prix GT. I sold it when I bought this car b/c I wanted a car I could afford to customize (you won't believe how cheap I got the car for. . .$2500). I've never really upgraded any of my other cars other than a borla exhaust on my grand prix. I loved the sound of the borla on my grand prix. Not loud but mellow. That's what I am eventually aiming for with my sc400 along with more Horsepower. If I loose milage, I understand and that's OK. I was just wondering if turbo would be better than supercharging on mpg and you answered that. . .the answer is no. Sorry I've allowed myself to get off topic. Thanks for replying Steve. You and Jibby have been a lot of help and have cleared up a lot. Keep up the good work. Maybe I'll be as experienced as the two of you one day.

 

[jibbby]

That's funny because with NOS you are running stock and or N/A like SteveChumo is saying...Gas mileage is good in my SC4 just like stock...However, a 15lb nos bottle is like $75 to charge and that bottle will last me one full month atleast... So even with a Nitrous system you do pay a fueling charge but probably not as much as being boosted..

Quick story about last night-

I went to the street races last night, my SC400 is decently fast without the NOS, but I had lined up against an LS1 Camaro with exhaust mods, and a turbo'd Acura...I ended up neck and neck with the Camaro the whole way under the juice and wasted the Acura off the line and held him off in the end......It was a fun evening and I did not lose a race...Legal street racing in LA, one of the last places..... What I am trying to say is I would have lost both of those races without my NOS system...Even if an SC4 is modified to the hilt N/A, exhaust, intake and ECU it will not be able to keep up with resonably fast cars...Boosting or NOS is really what you need if you want to do any real damage...

Just my two cents..

 

[Lextreme II]

Gents,

Please take a look into this thread. http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7126

 

[rnsoarer]

What is the model number of the flex-a-lite fan fan that was installed, my sc oem fan recently fell off. I have been looking for an electric fan but do not know anything about the cfm's or if i could replace it with a dual electric fan until i joined the forum.