"Coil on plug" coils for 1UZFE

[LondonBenji]

Can't be sure, but with the broad, flat flanges, they look like Beru (maybe P/N: 06B 905 105 E), from a VW or Audi. This pic is from 034 Motorsports, who have some neat stuff. Very good pricing for these coils too - $145 for 4, which is as good or better than eBay. looking at the connectors, I'm guessing they'll be either 3 or 4 pins, so they'll have integral ignitors.

One thing is for sure, that is Majoola's engine he used in his Ultima putting out about 1000bhp.

I don't know if he will still respond to PM's or even if it lists his email address any more.....

 

[fredio54]

I'm terribly sorry for the delay responding, I had subscribe set, but I didn't get notification for the previous three messages, just the last one.

Fred, I've always been curious about Nissan's electronic dizzies. At one point I was thinking of moving the trigger for the 1UZ's ignition up to the cams and using a pair of EDIS8's to fire the motor (effectively turning it back into a pair of 4 cylinder motors again)

Since the EDIS8 is a waste spark ignition, it has only 4 outputs, and it generates a firing pulse for every 90 degrees of crank rotation, or better said for every 9 teeth on the trigger wheel. So if the 36-1 trigger wheel were mounted on a camshaft drive, it would still tell the EDIS8 to fire every 9 teeth, but now it would be every 180 degrees of crank rotation, so it would be perfect for a 4 cylinder firing pattern.

The disadvantage of that is its not possible to do spark cut rev limit which in boost is preferable to a potential short term lean condition from fuel cut. oems use fuel cut, but they all run 12 psi or less...

If you'd want to dig up some details about these dizzies, I'd like to hear more about them. Most of us here are big fans of Toyota's engineering, but it's always good to know what the other OEM's are doing, and maybe "borrow" a few ideas now & then.......

I'll dig it up soon for you and post here again.

John,
The Nissan Skyline RB25 "distributor" runs from the exhaust camshaft and contains a dual optic hall sensor. The trigger plate is thin stainless and has an outer row of 72 ? slots and an inner row with 6 slots that are different widths.

close, but no cigar, they 4 cylinder or 6 contain 360 slots around the outer edge and the variable length ones for each cylinder. its that variable length that is key.

When used to trigger Autronic or Motec systems I have a new plate laser cut with 6 outer slots for cylinder sync and the inner has 1 slot for reference.

thats normal because to properly software decode these wheels would take a powerhouse of a processor that most if not all ecus just dont have. hence the hardware solution from nissan.

They are a PITA to change the plate as they are non serviceable items with staked brgs etc, but where there is a will there is a way.

oh come on, its not that bad, you're just being lazy

(picture stolen from someone else but...)

I fully stripped mine and modified it for future disassembly. it took a bit of time but was nice to have brand new bearings in it after that many years in a hot engine bay.

I'll find the description.

fred.

 

[cribbj]

Erol & Fred, thanks for the info on these dizzies.

The reply notification glitch is a bug in the vBulletin forum software - I've seen it on 2-3 other forums as well.

On the disadvantage that Fred mentioned, it's not possible to do spark cut with a standalone EDIS, but it should be with a smart controller such as a MS, or for the one I used, the Megajolt Lite Jr., this feature is actually in beta testing now for an overspeed setting, and will be one of the configuration settings in the future, so I would expect the next step would be an overboost option.

Of course to configure it for overspeed, the configuration setting would have to be 1/2 the actual overspeed desired since the cam mounted gear is running at 1/2 crank speed.

 

[fredio54]

I haven't dug it up yet, but ms2extra beta code has boost cut, boost control, all kinds of revlimiters etc already in it and driving around in many different cars. yes, i did mean the edis option. with a full standalone you can do anything you choose.

i just looked up megajoltlight jnr and they mention an option to do spark cut by coil disconnection, that is NOT safe as interupting the dwell period at high rpm will cause a spark at a more advanced angle than intended for that cycle and possibly destroy the engine in one hit if cylinder pressures are high enough. the limit must be done by the ecu by cutting the coil before dwell occurs. you could do it with edis like described, but its dangerous and a dirty hack. with edis you have to cut fuel to limit safely which isnt ideal in boost.

Will get that info for you, i assume its not too urgent, and i have a few things to sort out at the moment, but i wont forget!

fred.

 

[SprinterTRD]

"When used to trigger Autronic or Motec systems I have a new plate laser cut with 6 outer slots for cylinder sync and the inner has 1 slot for reference."

On a side note this is not required when using a MoTeC ECU It can use the standard sensor plate however I would not use the standard plate with a high performance engine with big cams.

 

[fredio54]

On a side note this is not required when using a MoTeC ECU It can use the standard sensor plate however I would not use the standard plate with a high performance engine with big cams.

why not exactly? unless the cpu couldnt keep up with the interupts generated from the 1 degree signal or didnt use that and guessed based on length of the other slots, it should be fine.

granted, a crank wheel with 36 or 60 teeth would be better for a variety of reasons, but it would have to be fairly extreme to be an issue.

 

[SprinterTRD]

why not exactly? unless the cpu couldnt keep up with the interupts generated from the 1 degree signal or didnt use that and guessed based on length of the other slots, it should be fine.

granted, a crank wheel with 36 or 60 teeth would be better for a variety of reasons, but it would have to be fairly extreme to be an issue.

The ECU can keep up, the problem is the mechanical jitter created by the cam profile & high revs

 

[fredio54]

surely there is software averaging to take that out of the picture?

thats the primary reason why crank based control is preferred though.

i have a 36-1 on my crank and i am using the single optical in my cas as a sync so that i can run COP on the engine. more teeth also = better transient accuracy for neutral and loss of traction moments in the lower gears.

fred.

 

[rms]

"When used to trigger Autronic or Motec systems I have a new plate laser cut with 6 outer slots for cylinder sync and the inner has 1 slot for reference."

On a side note this is not required when using a MoTeC ECU It can use the standard sensor plate however I would not use the standard plate with a high performance engine with big cams.

With the Autronic system the reference signal can not be within 10 deg of a crank signal.
Motec may run with 360 ref slots, but I will not take the chance that it may cause problems.

With cam driven sensors I run outer Cyl sync slots and 1 slot for Ref because I KNOW it will not give problems.

 

[cribbj]

I've just run a set of Tundra/LandCruiser pencil coils on my dyno test, and they ran fine, however they were a bit short, and I'd prefer to have a plug top configuration for the COP, rather than a pencil configuration. I also want them to have the built-in ignitors.

Mitch Pederson tells me the Acura RSX coils are this type configuration - does anyone have one of these, and could measure the length for me?

 

[Lextreme II]

Got a 2UZFE COP and did some work. The stock 2UZ doesnt fit directly to the 1uzfe valve cover. The mounting portion of the COP is blocking the complete insertion. I cut out the mounting bracket and it slides right in. What do u think?

Stock 2UZFE COP

This is how it would fit into the 1UZ valve cover without mod

Use a cut of wheel to cut off the mounting housing

The last three pictures show how they sit on the spark plug sleeve.

I also grind off the two small plug locks (knobs) to further another 1/4".

 

[Zuffen]

David,

Will the cover fit overt the COP?

This would stop any chance of it coming off the plug.

It would also look a lot better.

 

[Lextreme II]

David,

Will the cover fit overt the COP?

This would stop any chance of it coming off the plug.

It would also look a lot better.

Hello Rod,

Unfortunately, the stock plastic cover would not work. It is not because of the COP height, but the COP plug is slightly angle upward. Otherwise it would be perfect. Another technique I also should mention is that there is two little knobs right under the cop and if you grind it slightly, it should fit very tight and perhaps eliminate any hold down bracket.

 

[cribbj]

David, after two dyno sessions, one thing we've seen with these COP's is that they really like to work themselves up & off the plugs. It's the springs internal to the COP's. Even when we thought the coils had a firm grip on the plugs they still worked themselves off.

You've sorted out the height issue & the interference with the mounting lug, but I still think you'll need some sort of hold down bracket over the top.

 

[Lextreme II]

Actually I was thinking AutoCad an aluminum bracket almost the same shape as the stock cover but with COP head cut out. The Rectangle cut will clear the top but hold the bottom portion down. The aluminum plate will stretch from end to end of the valve cover. It will utilize the stock mounting holes on the valve cover.

See pic

 

[andrew k.]

John and Dave,
I am kind of embassased to join in here due to how painfully long everything is taking me these days on my project but I am in the process of covering the valve cover valley and making a nice smooth mounting area for the Okada COP's I am using. Kind of what you planned John, with the aluminum flat bar. Hope to have photos next month.

PS, I am making a new inlet plenum and runners with a front mounted Nissan throttle body (83mm) as well.

 

[cribbj]

Andrew, no need to be embarrassed, we all know how long these projects take. It'll be good to see your approach to the COP's. Are those coils long enough to engage the plugs, or will you have to use extenders?

Although the 2UZ Tundra/Landcruiser coils I used on the dyno last time performed fine under boost, they're too short to engage the plugs without extenders, or without modifying them as David has done.

I'd like to find some examples of longer COP's with integral ignitors and see how they work. The Acura RSX COP's are the next likely candidate, and I'd like to find one and measure its length.

 

[Lextreme II]

Are those coils long enough to engage the plugs, or will you have to use extenders?

Although the 2UZ Tundra/Landcruiser coils I used on the dyno last time performed fine under boost, they're too short to engage the plugs without extenders, or without modifying them as David has done.

I'd like to find some examples of longer COP's with integral ignitors and see how they work. The Acura RSX COP's are the next likely candidate, and I'd like to find one and measure its length.

I didnt use any extension on the COP. I noticed the Tundra COP has a spring inside of the plug. Is that normal?
This is how it should fit in the spark plug:

When the COP is fully push in, I think it is about 1/4" short. However, I think the spring is compressed but I am not sure how much. I tried to use a meter to test for the conductivity, but didnt work both in or out of the engine. So i guess I am used the wrong parameter.

 

[cribbj]

I think an "unmodified" Tundra coil is too short to fully engage the plug, because of the interference between the mounting lug or ear and the valve cover.

One which has had its ear whacked off by the "California Chainsaw Modification" should fit fine. :notworthy:

Earlier in this thread Steveo included some pics of his install with the Landcruiser coils. He notched the valve covers so the coils would fit lower and engage the plugs:

 

[Lextreme II]

Nice work. Markstoy also did something very similar to the above picture. John, do u know where I can get the spark plug extension? The portion u can screw out from the spark plug. I think with an 1/4" longer would be just prefect.