Chevy/GM and Th400/powerglide swap?

[jibbby]

Fella's I am looking at an engine that would be oh so sweet in my sc400... It is the:

The ZZ572 GM engine -

This is one of the most powerful street engines made that delivers 640hp and 650ft-lbs of torque at 4500rpm. It has a 9:6:1 compression ratio and 6000rpm redline and is non AFI.

Specs:
-block - 4.560"bore
-4.375" stroke forged 4340 steel crankshaft
-forged 4340 steel shot-peened H-beam connecting rods
-Forged allum. pistons with full floating wrist pins
-Plasma-moly piston rings
-hydraulic roller camshaft with .632" intake/.632" exhaust lift and 254/264 degree duration at .050
-Hydraulic roller lifters - dual valve springs
-ALuminum rectangular port cyl. heads with 118cc combustion chambers, stainless steel steel 2.25" intake/1.88" exhaust valves
-Hardened chromemoly steel spring retainers
-1.7:1 aluminum roller rocker arms
-High perf. 1-piece push rods
-Single -plane intake manifold
-850cfm mechanical - secondary carburetor
-Screened. louvered windage tray
-Hihg-rpm harmonic dampener - HEI distributor


Anyway this motor delivers 640hp as is and I got a screaming deal on it if I want it... I figure it just would never fit but thought I would ask you guys. Can it be done in an SC or Soarer? That engine combined with Th400 or Powerglide and forget about it..off to the races...Can I do anything with this motor be sides re-sell it for more profit?
-

 

[Lextreme II]

No doubt its massive. 572 cubic as compare to the 241 cubic for the 1UZFE. Its almost double the little 1uzfe.

The price is about $15,000 plus $10,000 to get it to run. At about 25k to get 620 bhp. I think a complete build longblock with twin T3 will do the job. 12 month WARRANTY only apply if the motor is install by a GM Dealer. Since this is a swap. You can kiss the 12 month WARRANTY good bye.
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
Damage due to improper installation, negligence, alteration, or accident.
Damage due to improper use or an application that is not approved by General Motors; including use related to racing or competition, marine or motorcycle applications, or for other non-vehicle usage.
GM Performance Parts engines where the vehicle odometer has been disconnected or the mileage reading has been altered.
Damage caused by lack of proper maintenance as described in the vehicles original Maintenance Schedule/Owners Manual, failure to follow Maintenance Schedule intervals, or failure to use or maintain proper type and levels of fluids, fuel, oil and lubricants recommended in the Maintenance Schedule/Owner's Manual. Proof of proper maintenance is the owners responsibility. Keep all receipts and be prepared to make them available if questions arise about maintenance.
Towing, rental vehicles, loss of time, inconvenience, loss of use, or other economic loss.
GM Performance Parts engines installed on vehicles registered and/or normally operated outside of the United States and Canada.

 

[jibbby]

Yeah Lex, I did not know you were familiar with the Chevy/GM big blocks...I am impressed... The deal I have is much less then the price you quoted...this engine was purchased by a customer of an engine building shop in West LA, it turns out the customer can't afford the job, so my friend at the shop says this engine is new and ready to go and that customer needs to unload it to get cash and will sell it at a %50 loss or more just to get it out of the shop... I understand this engine is massive but again this engine is so damn powerful and new..... No chance of a lex swap just too big.....I just wish I could do something with it....

 

[Lextreme II]

Nothing is too big... Cut.. Cut and Cut... There are issues u should consider:

Powertrain
Headers most likely will be custom ($1000)
Carb? ECU issue ($1000)
Sensors and other functions ($500)
AC?

Drivetrain
TH400 Tranny ($800)
TC ($200)
Yoke Mod ($300) or custom driveshaft ($550)
custom transmission mount ($200)

Labor and other hidden charges will run you up to $10,000 easily. Even at $17,000 you can make this ride faster. Even at half of the price, plan on at least 10k to get it running. Good luck with it.

 

[jibbby]

Do you know the dry weight of this engine by any chance Dave?

Yeah, I am also aware of all the little extra's that always go into a big swap..just ask James.....Alot of trouble with this un-imaginal swap but also alot of engine too....Throw a Paxton supercharger on that and there is not a motor on this forum that will touch that I would think...

The additional front end weight would surely cause a problem even with a LONG BLOCK....

 

[ChrisV]

It's a Chevy big block with aluminum heads. It'll fit. Emissions might be an issue, however, but it'll fit. While it weigns more than te 1UZ by about 200 lbs, the SC400 won't hardly notice the increase due to it's own mass.

But yeah, it's a pretty pricy way to go.

 

[Peewee]

Hmm 650HP from 9.4litres?? BORING.

I'd rather have a decompressed 1UZ or LS1 with 15-18psi of supercharged goodness.

 

[cowboy bebop]

I know a fellow in Louisiana that runs the 572ci, and a dual stage 650 dry shot on top of it. He runs a 8.68 in the 1/4, and drags the front wheels literally two feet off of the ground.

Eric

 

[jibbby]

PeeWee - come on Boring at 650bhp from a non AFI or nos run V8 motor? Anyway, not boring to me...Peewee you probably would fall asleep or be yawning in my SC400 even when running nos.. You guys are big time....

Anyway, Who's not to say you can't later run an A.F.I. (blower with hood alterations) or NOS on this big block? I would imagine it would be much easier to get that motor up to 4 digit horsepower on regular gas with an AFI application then any Lex/Toyota motor....Oh I can only imagine the brutal low end force of that motor when built.....I am drooling at this motor as I went to take a look at it in person this afternoon, oh it is so nice and big.....

ChrisV - 200lbs weight difference is that all? I thought it would be much more...wow..and that weight can be countered with carbon fiber hoods, and some other stuff...But honestly do you really think a big block of that size would fit? long wise yes but width and height wise under the sc hood would be a serious challenge after looking and measuring today...Tall wise it would be a struggle I would imagin unless you are able to run the oil pan about an inch off the ground...Squeezing in headers? Good luck, like Lex said cut cut cut....

 

[jibbby]

I said goodbye to this motor today but it was not easy...This A couple more generic pics of the most powerful base street motor...Even the viper V10 motor can not boast 620bhp... I will tell you this whom ever could pull off a swap like this would be my hero..

I just love the idea of a base motor putting out 620bhp...I think this motor would be much more reliable then any TT Toyota motor..no A/F ratio tuning, timing, boost, etc... Just rude base simple carburated power....

 

[cowboy bebop]

I think this motor would be much more reliable then any TT Toyota motor......

That's a bold statement. : )

Eric

 

[jibbby]

A bold but accurate statement my friend Cowboy (don't worry I would still kill to have your Supra)......However, I believe a simple carburated V8 motor vs. a turbo'd built Toyota motor would create far less problems.. I think all these turbo'd sc,ls,gs, supra's including yours would more likely be on a flat bed truck from a break down as apposed to this Chevy big block, no?... The worst that could happen to this beast of an engine is a caburator problem that is it....a turn of a tiny adjustment screw and your off and running.... Again my statement is bold but accurate....

You got to remember I am an old school Chevy guy at heart and need to look back at my roots from time to time...I still love my little toyota motors but just wish they were bigger at times... See ya

 

[ChrisV]

ChrisV - 200lbs weight difference is that all? I thought it would be much more...wow..and that weight can be countered with carbon fiber hoods, and some other stuff...But honestly do you really think a big block of that size would fit? long wise yes but width and height wise under the sc hood would be a serious challenge after looking and measuring today...Tall wise it would be a struggle I would imagin unless you are able to run the oil pan about an inch off the ground...Squeezing in headers? Good luck, like Lex said cut cut cut....

jibby, this is my 600 hp, 700 lb ft 466 cid Ford (.030 over 460) in my old Fox Mustang (the engine compartment is smaller than your SC). The engine cost $1500 to build, and ran like that for 10 years with nothing more than regular oil changes, and was as docile as grandma's Buick until you punched the throttle....

The Chevy big block costs a bit more to get power out of, but it's just as reliable.

And yes, the Chevy weighs in at 600 lbs with the aluminum heads and intake. That 460 had iron heads and weighed in at 690 lbs.

Here's a little tiny Spitfire with a 460:

Here's an MGB with a Chevy 454 (the same block as that engine you're looking at):

Same engine in a Jaguar XJ6 (which has a surprisingly tight engine bay):

You would probably have to run a hood bulge... :slaphappy

 

[cowboy bebop]

A bold but accurate statement my friend Cowboy (don't worry I would still kill to have your Supra)......However, I believe a simple carburated V8 motor vs. a turbo'd built Toyota motor would create far less problems.. I think all these turbo'd sc,ls,gs, supra's including yours would more likely be on a flat bed truck from a break down as apposed to this Chevy big block, no?... The worst that could happen to this beast of an engine is a caburator problem that is it....a turn of a tiny adjustment screw and your off and running.... Again my statement is bold but accurate....

You got to remember I am an old school Chevy guy at heart and need to look back at my roots from time to time...I still love my little toyota motors but just wish they were bigger at times... See ya

Whether it's accurate or not is left to be discovered. But I know my 2jz-gte is on 183,000 miles, 172K of those on the original motor (STOCK botom end) and topped out at 1100BHP, 934rwhp. I'm not sure if many Domestic motors can advertise that. I think in overall HP production, displacement is king, however if reliability is being called to the carpet, I'd like to see something qualify the statement. : )

Eric

 

[Peewee]

PeeWee - come on Boring at 650bhp from a non AFI or nos run V8 motor? Anyway, not boring to me...

I never said 650hp was boring, I said 650hp from 9.4L was boring.
Thats a lowly 69hp/L

With capacity, comes power, and torque.

You could easily get 650hp from a 1UZ.

One of the guys in Aust is pulling a lowly 430rwhp (a tad over 500fly hp) from just 11-12psi. Thats just with an unopened motor and a programable ecu.

Imagine what you'd get with a slight decompression and more boost.

Would most likely cost less, and be more reliable.


But hey, thats my thoughts. Your car, your money, your call.

 

[ChrisV]

I never said 650hp was boring, I said 650hp from 9.4L was boring.
Thats a lowly 69hp/L

lol! hp/liter is such an interesting sidenote. But that's about it.

A typical 250cc two stroke bike engine makes more hp/liter than pretty much any car engine, but would it be any fun operating as the powerplant in a Lexus? A .049 R/C plane engine makes 450 hp/liter, but would it even MOVE a car?

hp/liter is important in racing classes where displacement is tightly regulated, so more hp/liter means more hp, period.

Other than that, it's like saying, "yeah, you beat me, but I had one wheel removed, and was dragging a boat anchor along, so I really won."

:veryhappy

(just friendly ribbing...)

 

[jibbby]

Chris V - Your 460 bored to 466 Ford Big Block you have in that Fox must really motor hard, and your squeezing 600hp/700ft out of that base engine? Wow!!! That is good stuff their!!!!.....Nice side pipes too...May I ask you what that car can do?

Cowboy/Peewee- I grew up working on all the Chevy Small Blocks motors such as the 283,327,350,383CI etc..engines, never got my hands on a 454 big block but know what they are capable of and the durability of the motors depending on how they are built... Are they as solid as the 2JZ or the 1UZ? Probably not at stock form when comparing both in comparison... But after turbo'ing, and all the goodies that go with the turbo stuff in a Toyota Motor.. I just would think the carburated Big Blocks motors would be less likely to break down as a daily driver...that is all I was saying...Carburated Big Block Ford and Chevy motors are very solid and simple engines...

Hey, I drive the Toyota V8 32 valve and straight six 24 valve motors and both have over 100,000 and one over 200,000 at and I would say they are probably the most durable engines on the planet...I am not driving a big block, atleast not yet....he he..

Chris - Is the block size on the Gm ZZ572 the same size as the 454 Chevy big block? I was thinking the 572 block was a just little bit bigger and not just bored to the 572CID.. Is it the same dimensions?

 

[Lextreme II]

The think i dont like about the big block is the noise. I can have a nice twin turbo making 660-750 rwhp but still drive like a Lexus. The big block Chevy is very noisy and lots of virbration. I guess some people like that, but my 3 and 4 years old kids might not.

 

[ChrisV]

The think i dont like about the big block is the noise. I can have a nice twin turbo making 660-750 rwhp but still drive like a Lexus. The big block Chevy is very noisy and lots of virbration. I guess some people like that, but my 3 and 4 years old kids might not.

3-4 year olds LOVE noise! And a big block rumble is like nothing else. BTW, they make these things called mufflers that can quite an engine down, so all you hear is a little bit of deep growl. That's how they got those 500cid Cadillacs to be silent back in the '70s... Don't think that all powerful big blocks sound like top fuelers or funny cars...

jibby, it seems liek a lot of power from a basic engine, but look at it this way: in teh '69-70 Lincoln town car, that enigne, dead silent, smooth enough to not feel it running, made 500 lb ft of torque in STOCK form, with 365 hp at 4500 rpm. By giving it a bit more cam, a bit more compression, a bit more carb (an 850 is minimum), and removing this one HUGE lump in the middle of the stock echaust port that blocks over 45% of the airflow, it's pretty easy to get more rpms out of it, and a mere 200 lb ft of additional torque. The greater rpms are what gives the hp (up it from 4500rpm redline to 6500 rpm redline), and since yor'e multiplying from a greater torque figure, it's easy to see what happens. Even the factory crate 460 dynos at 575 hp and 650 lb ft of torque with stock heads... THat's why I like those.

 

[jibbby]

Chris - Oh yes the Old Lincoln Continentals with the suicide doors is a big gas eater and monster of an engine, I think I remember reading those cars get like (6 miles per gallon). Just like the big old caddy's... I had the pleasure of driving in a restored Lincoln Cont.. and it wasn't fast but smoothe confortable and quite, you can set up house in the back seat it is so large..that car must weigh 4 tons of car and steel...

Anyway, I agree a few mods and drop that motor in something smaller and off to the races you go....no dought.. Cams make a big difference in those motors....An Edelbrock or Holley 850cfm carb and intake manifold will help matters alot like you said... I know what these big blocks can do, and yes you can get them motoring big time with reasonalble noise output...

In regards to Lex's comment = Your headers and side pipes on your Fox must roar big time..and I can see that beast frightening a few 3 and 4 year olds for the first time under full throttle if not from the noise then from the speed. I may have to agree with LEX on this one....

Anyway, I still love the big blocks just like I love the 1uz's..... Gas comsuption on the big blocks is frightening for the 38 year olds like me....