1989 Crown Royal 1/2 cut wont start.

[361UZ]

This should be an easy one...
My Crown 1/2 cut wont start. Has spark at the plugs. Cranks OK.
I think it's fuel related as I have rigged up a temporary pump which may not be giving enough pressure.
I can get fuel from the fuel rails by loosening the cold-start fuel line.
Does the cold start injector require a high pressure pump to let fuel into the manifold?
Should the engine start on the main injectors if the cold start system is not working?
Do the main injectors require a relatively high fuel pressure to open?
Is there a way to test if the cold start injector is working? Where is it plugged into the main loom? Test plug somewhere?
When checking for spark, by removing a plug and resting it on the block, I noticed that the plug was dry - no fuel.
Thanks.

 

[Zuffen]

You need a minimum of 40lb fuel pressure to start or run the engine.

I suspect you're using a low pressure Carby pump and it simply won't run the engine.

Use a fuel pump designed for injection and it should run nicely.

Don't forget the fuel return line.

 

[361UZ]

Thanks Rod.
More or less confirms my suspicions.
The pump I am (was) using was from a Gemini, so I would imagine it's not delivering high enough pressure.
Re the return line, there's no fuel coming out from it as I would expect, so this confirms the low pressure diagnosis.
Would a common or garden Commodore pump do the job? I will jump on ebay and see what i can find.

Thanks again, Jeff

 

[MWP]

Any EFI cars pump should do the trick.
I used one from a mid 80s Camry to start mine up... only cost me $20 for the pump from a wrecker.

 

[Peewee]

Carby pumps are designed for 6-8psi (roughly).
It takes more pressure than that for an injector to open.

The fuel pressure regulator at the return is 'set' to 40psi, so it won't return any fuel until the rail pressure is that high.

 

[361UZ]

Yes. That's what I thought, re the regulator.
I was just wondering if the LP pump would manage to open the injectors - evidently not..
I am going to buy the "final" pump I will need for the car I am building, rather than buy a cheap 2nd hand pump, then buy one again later.
Thanks heaps guys!

Jeff

 

[361UZ]

Finally got a pump - and some time to play with it!

Now it spins on the starter, lets out a mad GROWL then stops...

It's as if the ignition is only supplying spark when cranking. Once I let go the key, it stops.

I am thinking the injectors are well and truly gummed up (fuel varnish).

Any easy way the clean them? I assume it's off with the fuel rails etc.

Is there any bits that will disintegrate when I remove them? What should I replace while I am in there?

(Bearing in mind this car hasn't run for at least 6 years - that I know of, and with only 80,000 k's on a 1989 car, I'd say it hasn't run very much at all.

 

[Zuffen]

First I'd try "hot wiring" the fuel pump to ensure it isn't stopping because the fuel pump resistor is faulty.

Try and work out if it's spark or fuel.

Don't pull it apart until you know the problem as you may actually creat more problems.

 

[361UZ]

First I'd try "hot wiring" the fuel pump to ensure it isn't stopping because the fuel pump resistor is faulty.

Try and work out if it's spark or fuel.

Don't pull it apart until you know the problem as you may actually creat more problems.

Thanks, but I did mention I am using a temporary fuel pump.
Managed to get a VL pump - working, for $25.
I have set it up with it's own battery, inlet filter, 1 litre "tank" etc.
As I said above, I figured that the injectors were/are clogged or "varnished" closed.
I can see that dismantling the fuel rails to extract the injectors would be a complicated task, and there would be O rings etc that have long since dried out etc.
So I figured that it should be possible to dislodge the dried fuel crap with a subtle tap with a small hammer/screwdriver assembly.
I performed the above task, and lo and behold! It managed to start and run! Albeit roughly.... So a second round of taps resulted in a much smoother engine!
And doesn't it sound great!.... The exhaust stops at the cat, so there's no muffler. It doesn't purr,.. it GROWLS!:saevilw:

However, I still want to remove and clean the injectors. Any hints/shortcuts?

 

[361UZ]

Answered my own question, didn't I....

From the WitchHunter site: " If injectors are stuck after sitting for a short time, sometimes a "tap" with a small hammer on the metal body can free it."

Well, there ya go!

 

[Cobber]

Good on ya

Pay to get the injectors cleaned.
change the front and rear crank seals
new rotors, dizzy caps and leads
new plugs
new cam belt (I bet it has never been changed)
check water pump
and you will get plenty of fun out of that motor

have fun

 

[Zuffen]

Injectors aren't hard when the motor is on the stand.

You need to remove the throttle body (whatch for the water line under it) which is 4 nuts plus 4 banjo fittings on the rails (front & rear) and the connection on the passenger's side where the pulsation dampner is, this is also where the fuel enters the rail.

Remove the 4 holding the rails down and the rails should lift off. You may have a few vacuum hoses to work your way around but it saves remembering where they go.

Have the injectors cleaned and re-instalation is the reverse of dismantling.

When fitting the injectors to the rail use petrol to lubricate the "O" ring as it is easy to damage them.

Once all together run the fuel pump and check for leaks.

As Cobber said do everything now whilst it is easy to get at.

I would suggest do the injectors and get it running again then do the cam belt. Worth knowing it still works after any work before moving on to another potential problem. It makes diagnostics easier if something goes wrong.

 

[sideshow]

i do thgis all the time

connect 12v to black orange wire that powers all injectors

find the trigger wires for injectors at computer end

and earth the wires one at a time
earth it on and off fast for afew minutes

u will hear injectors clicking or if its quiet keep earthing on and off untill u start to hear clicks

another thing is try run it on aerostart this will prove its fuel issue

 

[361UZ]

Thanks for the tips.
I agree, Rod - do the injectors etc, while it's still in the 1/2 cut - then start it to make sure everything is still OK. Then do the cam belt, probably after the engine is out of the 1/2 cut. same time as I clean it up, decide how the redo the serpentine belt etc. (no PS pump, no A/C pump etc).
It would be nice to be able to incorporate all those luxuries (electronic dash, tilt memory steering column, hydraulic suspension etc) in the new car!

 

[Zuffen]

There are quite a few threads on running the serp belt with only an alternator.

Have a search.

 

[sideshow]

good luck doing the tilt steering

its a pretty big job

i loooked at it once for a customer and quoted a grand or 2

the tilt and memory steering section has a bigger ecu than the engine

 

[a.Lpha]

i wanna see pictures of this old crown, i've never actually seen one.

 

[Peewee]

Google "UZS131"

 

[361UZ]

i wanna see pictures of this old crown, i've never actually seen one.

Here is a picture of mine.





The inner lights are foggies, it has clear indicators, air suspension, electronic dash etc - all in 1989!

 

[Zuffen]

That's interesting my 1990 Crown had amber indicators.