What are the forged rods and piston options out there?

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
i steadfastly stand by the claim that the 1uz rods are not forged. maybe sintered, but certainly not die forged. on top of that, 3uz/1uz vvti rods are anorexic looking things that id get nervous about doing anything with

ill get around taking a spare uz rod to a metalurgist one day...
 
Agreed on the non forged rod thing. Have a look at the sides of the rods on teh beams. A forged rod has a rasied "rib" along the sides where the metal is compressed by the dies and tries to sqeez any excess out of the mold, the 1/2/3UZ rods have a perfectly smooth side, kinda looks like a rod that has been beam posished and shot peened(which they def haven't).

I would be very cautious about making any more than 500-600 flywheel hp on stock rods in a 1UZ with earlier rods, and 100hp less at least for later rods. I'll tell you how strong the stock early rods are in a few weeks;)

6BOOST
 
I think it is a mistake to say these OEM rods are "not forged", because industry experts have already accepted the process of powder sintering as a forging process. It's referred to as "powder forging", and it's one of the most hotly competitive areas of the metal industry. Basically it's the new technology of powder forging taking market share away from the old guard.

While it's true, the OEM rods start out life as a pile of powdered metal, and the aftermarket rods start out as a piece of billet, the end result is very similar, and in some respects the powder forging process is superior to the conventional forging process.

Where the OEM powder forgings differ from the aftermarket forgings, of course, is in the design of the beam sections, and big/small ends where the aftermarket forgings are clearly superior for the intended purpose of high rpm and high output.

Toyota designed these OEM powder forgings with a generous amount of reserve, but it's probably not enough for those here that want to turn a 250 BHP, 5500 RPM 1UZ into an 800+ BHP, 8000 RPM monster motor. However, the aftermarket is now using PF for some very high performance applications, and they're giving the conventional drop forging industry a run for their money.

Here's some interesting articles on the subject:

http://www.mpif.org/DesignCenter/Conrod.pdf

http://www.metal-powder.net/business/archive/business_jun05.html

http://www.epma.com/rv_pm/PM Products/6. POWDER FORGING/Powder Forging Introduction.htm

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/shortblock/1510sc_howards/
 
Well, regardless of how good its capable of building these rods, the simple fact is teh factory items in the early engines simply aren't capable of taking more than 600-700hp without bending or breaking. Every engine I have heard of that has broken in stock form, NOT throgh detonation, has bent or completely broken the stock rod.

If thats not enough, I'll be happy to prove it. My engine will be going within 6-8 weeks and tuned on C16, it has Autronic, ARE cooler and T72 turbo, the end will be somewhere, I'm sure I'll find it:wave:

6BOOST
 
I would love if they did hang together for more...with ballpark 600-700hp fly at present they are still doing the job but only time will show for how long.

I never expected to have 400rwkw on the stock setup so i'm still stoked and more than a little surprised. Once this setup dies i will seriously consider aftermarket forged rods as even if the stock sintered rods are considered 'forged' they still aren't of a comparable size to the AF ones.
 
No doubt, the aftermarket drop forged rods are currently stronger and better for higher output applications, but I think one of powder forging's main attractions (for me as an engineer anyway) is its predictability. In one of those papers referenced earlier, it can be seen that the scatter of the failure plots of the PF rods vs the drop forgings is much, much tighter. This means engineers don't have to put extra metal in a design to cover the manufacturing inconsistencies, because the PF rods will fail at the same stress point every time. This could mean much lighter assemblies in race motors than are currently possible with conventional designs. I'm a disciple of the Colin Chapman school of thought, which was that the perfectly designed race car is the one that just won the race, then fell apart just after the finish line.

Frankly, it'll be very interesting to see how far the powdered metal industry can take this technology over the next 5-10 years. Already there are powder forged pistons, and titanium powder forged rods available for racing applications.

Imagine the possibilities for powder forged piston development if you could dial in whatever "cocktail" you wanted for a certain application. Let's see, a bit of graphite for lubricity, titanium for light weight & stability, some Inconel for anti-galling, etc. I don't know if this is even possible yet, but it makes for some fascinating alloy possibilities. Already the powder industry is doing some of this with cylinder liners, so why not pistons?

Not to stray too far OT here, but just to bring some clarification where it was needed. The OEM 1/2/3UZ rods are definitely forged, just not in the traditional manner.
 
the other thing to consider is exactly what is required for sustained reliability in FI vs NA application. boost and low revs does not require the same rod as NA + high revs.

imho, drop forged rods are far superior to PF rods in the NA + high revs category. i am referenceless at present, but will return!
 
Hehehe, Ed I'm sure there are lots of good arguments "for" conventional drop forging and "against" PF. I just find PF to be a very interesting technology that's starting to come into its own.

When they start building dragster, Le Mans and Indy motors with PF rods & pistons, then we'll know it's good stuff, and will last at high outputs.
 
wow what great service, very quick response from them... prices just in

They are custom made so you can pick any compression ratio you want.

This is from Darius Tarman [[email protected]] if anyone is interested. Certainly the direction I am heading...


Piston $134.50 x8 $1,076.00
Wrist Pin $12.00 x8 $96.00
Locks $1.75 x16 $28.00
Pin Fit $7.25 x8 $58.00
Rings $29.00 x8 $232.00

Total $1,490.00
 
Whilst we're all talking about forged rods bear in mind Argo rods are NOT forged.

They are Billet.

Argo advised me they were good for 9,000rpm and 200hp per rod.
 
Whilst we're all talking about forged rods bear in mind Argo rods are NOT forged.

They are Billet.

Argo advised me they were good for 9,000rpm and 200hp per rod.

So if I am reading that right in theory they would be happy hitting 1600BHP at 9000rpm? Schweet! :Eyecrazy:

Lex, the 3000bhp I read from the link you posted:

http://www.lextreme.com/tundra.html

Recently he also got a set of custom forged pistons, custom pins and custom rings. These pistons combination is capable of handling 3,000 hp. Yes, you didn't read it wrong. Its 3,000 hp.

Schweeeeeet.


So basically there isn't necessarily a pecking order for best to worst pistons, it does seem down to personal experience.

How much would a set of forged titanium rods and pistons cost then? And how much could THEY handle? :684:
 
wow what great service, very quick response from them... prices just in

They are custom made so you can pick any compression ratio you want.

This is from Darius Tarman [[email protected]] if anyone is interested. Certainly the direction I am heading...


Piston $134.50 x8 $1,076.00
Wrist Pin $12.00 x8 $96.00
Locks $1.75 x16 $28.00
Pin Fit $7.25 x8 $58.00
Rings $29.00 x8 $232.00

Total $1,490.00


e-solver, where are they based ?..........thats a very good price , has any one used them before.?
 
Yes 1,600hp at 9,000 rpm.

Those CP pistons seem expensive compared to the Ross pistons in the Group Purchase?

Not sure what the CP piston group buy price would be... have not talked to them about it, do you think its worth a shot to see what they can do? You pay for what you get in motorsport parts, and CP has one of the best reputations out there...
 


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