teaser pics "Top Secret" manifold vers. 2

[Brad Bedell]

Thanks. :wtf: Now I have to wonder about the money I just spent with him on the group buy for the W58 adaptor... I've been keeping tabs on it through this site.

Is there proof that he's scammed anyone? Is there proof that he hasn't delivered on anything? Seems banning him for putting a prototype part up for sale is a bit premature...

I think so also. Unless they have proof of scamming, they did more harm to the community than good. I also have money out with him for the tranny adapter.

 

[JDMfantasy]

Just remember someone always has to be the first and until then, no one knows and things just stay theories.

 

[Zuffen]

I think we all need to bring this into perspective.

If the thread had said "new secret style manifold" rather than "teaser" our stance would be different.

The Site management see it as wrong to sell any product that is not proven to work and have the durability to perform the function it is intended to do.

If we as a Site allow unproven products to by sold to our members we will be the people responsible for members losing money (on useless purchases) which at the end of the day will reflect badly on the Site and the vehicles/engines.

We are all for developement but let's be able to prove it works before we try to sell it.

A lot of members have fabricated parts they could replicate and sell quite easilly but as the parts aren't proven when the post is made the post is for interest only.

 

[SC400TT]

JDM,

You are ok. I just think Cowboy is little too premature offering this part. This part is still under development but yet, he is offering this unit already. We love innovations. This forum is found based on innovations. However, we as a site feel cowboy is providing our members lots performance products in "Theoretical Functions" It means, it worked on 2JZ therefore it must work on the UZ. As a site we need to protect our members. Since this is the only site with one common interest. It’s our obligation and ethical duty to do this.

David:

I agree that you need to protect the community...But to ban Cowboy, I think that was a bit premature...The GB on the Ross pistons was not previously tested. Yes, technically sound, but not tested in advance. I thought Innovation was a large part of this forum...What about those of us looking to make the auto to manual swap on the SC400, like me...I have enough experience with Eric that I am not concerned about losing my money...but for those that do not know him, now, those people that jumped in on the V160 adapter plate are probably feeling a bit squeamish about their decisions...

I am not trying to create a problem here Dave, but I wonder what really happened between you and Eric that lead you to this decision?

It's your website, so you can obviously do as you please, but your explanation seems to be a bit weak to me...

Ryan

 

[SC400TT]

I think we all need to bring this into perspective.

If the thread had said "new secret style manifold" rather than "teaser" our stance would be different.

The Site management see it as wrong to sell any product that is not proven to work and have the durability to perform the function it is intended to do.

If we as a Site allow unproven products to by sold to our members we will be the people responsible for members losing money (on useless purchases) which at the end of the day will reflect badly on the Site and the vehicles/engines.

We are all for developement but let's be able to prove it works before we try to sell it.

A lot of members have fabricated parts they could replicate and sell quite easilly but as the parts aren't proven when the post is made the post is for interest only.

Zuffen, I agree with you wholeheartedly...and I agree, his wording could have been better. But don't you think he could have been warned privately, and asked to be a bit more accurate in his claims???

Ryan

 

[Lextreme II]

There are many things happened prior to this action. The management team discussed this issue for many weeks. He also got many warnings from our moderators before this action occur. The management team fully aware of this actions.

 

[Pro]

he is not banned as i mentioned - only suspended.

"banned" is the only handle VBulletin will allow.

cowboy will return as a valid and welcome member in the very near future.

now, JDM, who does your welding for you? i have just seen a VERY nasty 7MGTE manifold on a supra forum apparently built by you. the flange was warped by a good 18-20mm.

i wouldn't employ the same people to do your welding in the future...!

 

[Pro]

i have to ask though - if you had bought a stroker crank from cowboy (that he honestly believes works, so there's no mis-intention there), bolted it into your engine with the forged rods and then realised that the 3.85in stroke as advertised fouls on the lower chamber wall ... how would you feel being out of pocket and how would you feel towards the site that is recommending his work?

this is the point of view site management have to take.

when cowboy uses his 3.85in stroker crank in his own engine, and it runs and produces results, then he can advertise the product. and not a minute beforehand.

we have a duty to protect our members - and whether you like it or not. if you want to purchase a few grands worth of forged steel paperweight, then that's your perogative. but for someone who thought they were getting a UZ stroker crank, a paperweight doesn't really resemble that now, does it?

this thread is to get back on topic >now< or it will be deleted and JDM will start another thread. i appreciate the mature discussion on this subject, but we have a general discussion section for this. if anyone wants to take this further, then please start a thread there.

thanks.

 

[JDMfantasy]

Next week the manifold will be put on the flow bench. Does anyone have a spare stock 2UZ manifold that they could lend to be flowed as well?? It would great to have some baseline numbers.
Let me know!!!!

 

[ChrisV]

i have to ask though - if you had bought a stroker crank from cowboy (that he honestly believes works, so there's no mis-intention there), bolted it into your engine with the forged rods and then realised that the 3.85in stroke as advertised fouls on the lower chamber wall ... how would you feel being out of pocket and how would you feel towards the site that is recommending his work?

That would depend totally on how he handles it afterward. And, as you've probably seen here, we tend to ask a LOT of questions on suitability beforehand, both to people vending things here and of vendors that don't even post. And we even ask millions of questions on suitability about products that HAVE been proven, just to see if it's going to work with our setup. Since in this example, we'd be watching the prototypes of the klit going together, we'd be asking about thihngs liek fitment, clearances, etc,and even if we bought a set as a pre-buy, we'd be making sure that the parts DID fit before the production parts got delivered to us. the wait would be identical either way, but paying customers will make for a better economic incentive to a reputable shop. If it doesn't, THEN there's a problem. Has there been such a problem with Cowboy? I.e. taking money and not delivering a product, or not working with a customer after a sale?

There's a difference between advertising a prototype product for sale, especially in a thread desribing it as a half completed prototype, and advertising and showing a completed product that doesn't do anything and the vendor says anything that goes wrong is the buyer's fault. Or worse, just peddling known junk like the Tornado...

Since there is nothing but a prototype of this intake, then anyone buying it should know that it's in prototype stage. He may have been advertising it, but like the adaptor I'm getting, he can't deliver it until actual products exist.

This is the problem with working on the bleeding edge in a segment that is in it's infancy. Technically every part we get for modding these engines is a prototype, in comparison with production parts. Even something that's been proven to work on someone's car here may not work at all on another setup that looks similar. This particular product has a proven record on other vehicles, doesn't it? That means the company is committed to delivering parts that work, even if the one they are working on right now is merely a prototype.

 

[Brad Bedell]

Next week the manifold will be put on the flow bench. Does anyone have a spare stock 2UZ manifold that they could lend to be flowed as well?? It would great to have some baseline numbers.
Let me know!!!!

I have one "in the mail" to me. I'm not sure how fast I can get it to you as it's not to me yet. I'll try to update you once I receive it. In fact, you can have the upper portion of it, as it's not worth the shipping costs in scrap metal to ship it back to me. Let me know if you dont' find any other offers and I"ll drop it in the mail to you.

-B

 

[Lextreme II]

ChrisV, Please read this thread http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4770&page=3 Please consider this as a friendly caution.

JDM,

Your intake is not even 10% done yet, but yet immediately he post it on his shopping cart. I see this thread has no value to the community. Once again, cowboy been warned multiple times, edit few dozen times, threads move countless time. Because of his business practice, as a site we dont endorse his method of business. None of his products has been tested by himself. He dont even own a running uzfe. He has few blocks and that is about it. This thread is closed.

This cowboy issue is over. If anyone want to continue with this issue, please pm Zuffen. Anyone continue to question the management decission will be suspended.

 

[Pro]

this thread is to get back on topic >now< or it will be deleted and JDM will start another thread. i appreciate the mature discussion on this subject, but we have a general discussion section for this. if anyone wants to take this further, then please start a thread there.

thread is locked. JDMFantasy has been asked to start another thread at his leisure.