Sack religious swap

[oer]

so i’ve been planning a very sack religious swap with a 1UZ. I have a V6 dodge charger and i don’t wanna swap a hemi, i really love the 1uz with it’s reliability, smooth power band, and it’s relatively good swap price. im gonna be called the antichrist of dodge but that’s okay lol. i’m 90% sure the motor will fit, with space in the front for twin turbos down the line. so my question is that, what will i all need? i’ve got a list, but am i missing anything important that should be considered? here’s the list.

•for an ECU i’ll be going full stand alone, with the stock ecu for the little things like like doors n shit.

•i have a 8 speed auto i found a gcu for, and that will hopefully talk to the ecu as well lol

•driveshaft

•sensors (should i use all stock sensors or use a bunch of the sensors from the standalone)

•i have a v6 charger, whitch makes 250HP/250TQ, i know the first gen 1uz with the thicker rods will have around that exact some power figures so for fueling i know i could use the stock pump, but i’ll be rigging in a R/T pump to be sure. (5.7 hemi pump, makes around 370hp)

•sense the 1uz will only have 4 more torque than the 3.5 v6 i don’t have to worry about swapping shit like axles and the diff right away.

•brakes are brakes, might have to get better pads for the weight change but they’ll be fine

•cooling will be all after market, ill drop good money in cooling ( Mishi Moto must likely)

i thinkin i covered most of it. is there anything i should know that would be helpful? i knew this’ll be a bad idea to post in the dodge forums, they’re probably gonna hate me lol. and no i’m not just gonna buy a hemi charger because it’s easier or cheaper, that’d be lame lol. thanks guys

 

[cribbj]

Well we're all fans of the 1UZ here so I doubt you'll get much backlash here for doing it, but it seems to me you're gonna spend a ton of money doing the swap, and not see any return on it until you turbo the UZ, so the obvious question is "why don't you turbo or supercharge your existing motor" and save a ton of money?

 

[oer]

Well we're all fans of the 1UZ here so I doubt you'll get much backlash here for doing it, but it seems to me you're gonna spend a ton of money doing the swap, and not see any return on it until you turbo the UZ, so the obvious question is "why don't you turbo or supercharge your existing motor" and save a ton of money?

with the 3.5 in there, there isnt that much for after market, a few 10 min bolt ons and many a cam. There used to be a supercharger company called Tidalwave but they took down their website. The only one that was decent for the money was the stage 3, costed ~$5000, and could only make stock around 5.7 hemi power (~370, stock=250). If you do wanna push more boost, you need internals, no one makes them so you would have to make heavy mods to the block. At this this point you spent more on a v6, and could have made ~550 with the same cost.

Im not a huge fan of the hemi, they're expensive to maintain, not as reliable in general. In all honesty hemis belong on the drag strip, they awesome for power, not for daily driving. Thats why I like the 1uz, its got a lot of after market support, its reliable, and i can throw turbos on without having lost a great amount of life span if built correctly. overall just a better motor for daily driving, hell i plan on strapping a 8hp70 if all goes to plan

 

[cribbj]

All good points, and the UZ's are somewhat similar as far as aftermarket support. There's "some" bolt-on stuff out there, but when it comes to turbos, there'll be a lot of fabrication involved.

You may want to consider the 4.7 liter 2UZ engine in lieu of the 1UZ as you'll get the immediate benefit of another liter of displacement over your 3.5, plus the 2UZ has better flowing heads than the 1UZ, and with its cast iron block, it has a stronger bottom end and will handle big boost better than the aluminum block 1UZ. It does suffer from lazy cams because it was designed for low RPM torque as a truck engine, but those are relatively cheap to fix.

 

[numbchux]

It's "sacrilegious"

You won't see me defending any engine offered in a Charger. 1UZ everything!

Looks like the hardest part on your list is this 8-speed Auto. Mating it to the 1UZ, and controlling it (in concert with the engine).

Running a 1UZ on a standalone is easy, and pretty well-documented. About a thousand ways to do it. Start with the ECU itself, what talks to your transmission, if your body modules require anything from it to function, and what your tuner prefers. And then start narrowing it down. These are generally capable of running of almost any sensor. So stock will probably work, but aftermarket is an option also.

Driveshaft is easy, there are driveline shops everywhere that make custom mismatched shafts.

Then it's just a matter of fabbing it up, wiring it up, and roasting the tires.

 

[oer]

It's "sacrilegious"

You won't see me defending any engine offered in a Charger. 1UZ everything!

Looks like the hardest part on your list is this 8-speed Auto. Mating it to the 1UZ, and controlling it (in concert with the engine).

Running a 1UZ on a standalone is easy, and pretty well-documented. About a thousand ways to do it. Start with the ECU itself, what talks to your transmission, if your body modules require anything from it to function, and what your tuner prefers. And then start narrowing it down. These are generally capable of running of almost any sensor. So stock will probably work, but aftermarket is an option also.

Driveshaft is easy, there are driveline shops everywhere that make custom mismatched shafts.

Then it's just a matter of fabbing it up, wiring it up, and roasting the tires.

I'm happy to say there is 1 company in the world that offers a stand alone GCU for a ZF 8HP series, HTG Tuning. I asked them a few questions about mating to a 1uz and they said its very straight forward, adapter plate, then bolt it up. They got a few cars with various engines like a RX-8 w/ 8HP70, 2JZ, 1jz, and a couple more. I'd be the first to mate a 8 speed witt a 1uz i believe (correct me if im wrong).

I had no idea that the 1uz can use a various amount of sensors... oh boy, knowing me that's where most of the budget is gonna for getting it started, accurate data is vital.

I do have a driveshaft place that would be down to make something odd if I ever need it, Im super thankful for them because i have another project that would be a first in the world in the mix.

As soon as I can fine a first gen 1uz along with a decent 8HP70, the project will begin!

 

[numbchux]

they said its very straight forward, adapter plate, then bolt it up.

Just that simple.....lol


Yes, any engine is just an "adapter plate" away from being mounted to any transmission. I was in Graham Evans's (former Prodrive engineer) shop when he was building one of the first new Fiestas for high level US rally, he had a custom adapter plate to mate a Skoda Super2000 sequential gearbox to the Fiesta engine (which also had a good sized turbo on it). He quipped the the adapter was the most expensive part of the drivetrain....

 

[oer]

Just that simple.....lol


Yes, any engine is just an "adapter plate" away from being mounted to any transmission. I was in Graham Evans's (former Prodrive engineer) shop when he was building one of the first new Fiestas for high level US rally, he had a custom adapter plate to mate a Skoda Super2000 sequential gearbox to the Fiesta engine (which also had a good sized turbo on it). He quipped the the adapter was the most expensive part of the drivetrain....

You're not wrong.

I've seen a few guides on how to make your own plate from scratch, Im not gonna be doing that because I dont want to have a chance of failure. I'm lucky in that i got a friend's dad who works at a cnc shop and make one for a really good price. All id have to do is trace the bolt pattern on the motor and the bell housing, give him the templates and he'll have it done. im not toooo worried about the plate, I'd know more when I get the housing for the 8HP, and work from there.

 

[Zuffen]

Just be aware an automatic transmission requires the centre of the torque converter to be centred to withing 2-3thou which in most languages is bugger all.

Tracing bolt holes and dowels isn't anywhere near accurate enough for an auto.

For a manual you will get away with it (I made my own and it works well) but you may find the torque converter centre spigot is too big or small for the 1UZ crank or the torque converter may be too long or too short and this will cause lots of grief and mucking around.

Get it wrong and you may snap the bellhousing off the transmission, seen it happen, or it will vibrate horribly and destroy the torque converter and/or pump.

There's a lot more to this than most people suspect.

 

[oer]

Just be aware an automatic transmission requires the centre of the torque converter to be centred to withing 2-3thou which in most languages is bugger all.

Tracing bolt holes and dowels isn't anywhere near accurate enough for an auto.

For a manual you will get away with it (I made my own and it works well) but you may find the torque converter centre spigot is too big or small for the 1UZ crank or the torque converter may be too long or too short and this will cause lots of grief and mucking around.

Get it wrong and you may snap the bellhousing off the transmission, seen it happen, or it will vibrate horribly and destroy the torque converter and/or pump.

There's a lot more to this than most people suspect.

THATS the big thing im worried about. Very few people swap autos into their projects so Its hard to get well documented info on how to get around this. Now i have an idea on how Im going to tackle it, but if you're able to get better info on this please let me know.

I was thinking if the torque converter has too big of a spigot for the crank, I was thinking of making a cuppler that would slide over (say the diameter of the spigot is 3" and the crank is 2", create a 0.9" cuppler to close the gap and give it a very tight fit).

With that i could run the problem of an unbalanced connection, say the cuppler was cnced in a wonky way, it would create a nasty vibration that could cause major damage.

If I were to create something like that, Id have to modify the crank to to give it a key to secure it to prevent slippage. doing that, id need to rebalance the crank, and the whole thing has a good chance of not working in the first place.

I'v been having nightmares over this since I had the idea of using an auto lol

Edit: The good thing about these trans is that they are very widely used among almost all companys. if I get a situation where the crank is too big for the spigot, I'm 70% confident I can find a TC that would have around the same size, that would be a pretty close bolt up.

 

[oer]

All good points, and the UZ's are somewhat similar as far as aftermarket support. There's "some" bolt-on stuff out there, but when it comes to turbos, there'll be a lot of fabrication involved.

You may want to consider the 4.7 liter 2UZ engine in lieu of the 1UZ as you'll get the immediate benefit of another liter of displacement over your 3.5, plus the 2UZ has better flowing heads than the 1UZ, and with its cast iron block, it has a stronger bottom end and will handle big boost better than the aluminum block 1UZ. It does suffer from lazy cams because it was designed for low RPM torque as a truck engine, but those are relatively cheap to fix.

Ive been doing some research on the 2UZ and that would hands down be the best option. Im a little nervous about how tall the motor is, and the oil pan. My 3.5Lv6 has a forward facing oil pan (toward the belts) and the 2UZ/1UZ have rear facing. I have a subframe that would block it, my motor mounts are connected to that and the sway bars so it cant be moved easily. Im not sure if I could fab one up in the other direction and have it work the same, any ideas? I can post some pictures of the underside of the charger so you can a visual.

 

[Zuffen]

You could use an LS400 front sump and pickup on the 2UZ. Straight swap.

If I was planning the auto swap I'd first be sorting out the front spigot size of the torque converter, then the length of the torque converter.

You could be lucky and find the auto has a bolt on bellhousing with a circular opening that would allow you to use the Toyota bellhousing appropriately modified to centralise the trans.

I once did this with a Toyota Bell and Tourqueflite 727 trans.

None of what you plan is easy and it WILL do your head in, but fun if you get it right.

 

[oer]

You could use an LS400 front sump and pickup on the 2UZ. Straight swap.

If I was planning the auto swap I'd first be sorting out the front spigot size of the torque converter, then the length of the torque converter.

You could be lucky and find the auto has a bolt on bellhousing with a circular opening that would allow you to use the Toyota bellhousing appropriately modified to centralise the trans.

I once did this with a Toyota Bell and Tourqueflite 727 trans.

None of what you plan is easy and it WILL do your head in, but fun if you get it right.

I've been trying to find out that info about the TC and the crank diameter, but its been difficult. At this point im gonna try going to a junk yard and just straight up measuring the spigot and the crank. Unless someone on here happens to have their 2UZ pulled and can do me a major solid and post the length, circumference, and any odd tidbits about the crank, I'm stuck there.

For the TC, since people are starting to modify the 8HP70 there are a few options. I can always have one fully fabbed up and would be able to hold the torque I need and bolt up. But first I'm gonna see if I cant find cant one thats similar and would work just to get it driving.

As for a bellhousing, thats a great idea. Ill be doing a bunch more research and see what I can get done. I also have a question, since the 1UZ and 2UZ have very very similar design and most things are interchangeable, there is a company that makes GM trans adapter plates for the 1UZ (If the ZF dont work I can resort to a 4L80/6L80). Are bellhousings Interchangeable or do they have differences?

Oh yea this'll be a good one, if the stars align, this'll be one badass daily.

 

[Zuffen]

The bellhousing will interchange between the 1/2/3UZ family.

The 6L80 only comes in a pure electronic form and getting one to run without the LS engine would be harder than walking on water. They are all electronically switched and can be destroyed real quick if things aren't kept very ordered. You can buy aftermarket controllers but they usually rely on GM's engine management to work.

You could fit the ECU and wiring with the reluctor wheel off an LS2/3 to a UZ as this has been done before.

I have a toy with an LS3 and 6L80E and the transmission is a total nightmare to do anything with.

The 4L80 wouldn't give you any real advantage over the stock Aisin auto except perhaps handle more torque in standard form.

 

[oer]

The bellhousing will interchange between the 1/2/3UZ family.

The 6L80 only comes in a pure electronic form and getting one to run without the LS engine would be harder than walking on water. They are all electronically switched and can be destroyed real quick if things aren't kept very ordered. You can buy aftermarket controllers but they usually rely on GM's engine management to work.

You could fit the ECU and wiring with the reluctor wheel off an LS2/3 to a UZ as this has been done before.

I have a toy with an LS3 and 6L80E and the transmission is a total nightmare to do anything with.

The 4L80 wouldn't give you any real advantage over the stock Aisin auto except perhaps handle more torque in standard form.

That's sick how most of these parts can be interchangeable.

And all that is true, i work at chevy and working on 6Ls are a son of a b. Not sure why I even said I was considering it lol. But the 4L80 would be a last resort option if I cant get the 8HP to work., aftermarket support is all over, and they can be built for a shit ton of torque and will hold up well.

I'm just hoping I can manage to get the 8HP to work, much better trans and relatively simple disassembly. Its just about getting that control unit. A little status update on that, its stuck in Tennessee currently because of paperwork/customs bullshit (Its coming from Poland). Dudes probably through it was a bomb or something lol. I just hope they didnt take it apart and possibly damaged it. but only time will tell.