Root Style Intercooler

[Lextreme II]

What do u guys think about using the radiator fluid as a cooling medium. This method will save lots of pumbings and pump. What do you think? Would the radiator fluid be cool enough for cooling the exchanger?

 

[JBrady]

Not a good choice. Much better off with a separate system. Coolant temp out of the radiator is still WAY over ambient.

 

[cribbj]

At Cat in the late 80's we had JWAC (engine jacket water aftercooled) engines, and SCAC (separate circuit after cooled) engines. The EJW type were only rated at 85% of the BMEP of the SCAC.

Highest rated of all were the AAAC (air to air aftercooled)

Interestingly, Cat offered the JWAC and SCAC versions only in 8.5:1 compression, and the AAAC in 10:1. Wastegates were set to 15 PSI.

These were all natural gas fueled engines (>90% methane) so the octane was normally at least 105, and sometimes 110 or better.

John

 

[Toysrme]

Well... You could make a completely stand alone transmission cooler & use the transmission cooling portion for the aftercooler.

I like a normal air-air intercooler with a mist of water if you're heat soaking it a lot. That isn't an option at a lot of road racing tracks tho (spray = bad), tho most drag strips won't care as long as you don't use it on the way down.

 

[svsgt1]

Lextreme,


What type of Roots style intercooler are you looking at? Do you have any links or pictures of what you are thinking about? I ask because I was considering doing a roots style supercharger but didn't like the fact that the intercooler options were limited. I liked Jordy's setup with the jag intercoolers but it seems to be very wide in terms of fitment. I don't have much hood clearance n my setup but I have more then a stock Lexus has so I don't mind the added height but I can't go crazy. I think I have an extra 3 inches I could go upward. I need to measure of course, but let me know what you are looking at as I would be interested.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Lextreme II]

svsgt1,

I was thinking using the Cobra/Lightening heat exchanger. Below is a heat exchanger from a Cobra/Lightening. However, would a oil/tran cooler with running fresh water would work the same? There are many different configurations on oil/tran cooler and be placed between the manifold and the supercharger. The last few pictures are oil coolers.

 

[svsgt1]

I know this sounds like a stupid question but is that really how these water-to-air intercoolers work for a roots styles supercharger. I know the water is plumbed through the intercooler and then to a heat exchange located somewhere else to cool the water after it was made hot by the air flowing out of the supercharger. But is the piece that is inside the intercooler just another heatexchanger located in a sealed compartment in between the supercharge and intake manifold?

 

[Lextreme II]

Yes,

I the oil/tran cooler is be install inside and run water into it along with an external pump and heat exchanger.

 

[svsgt1]

Well if that is the case then I guess it all depends to answer your original question. I would assume that you could use any oil cooler as the heat exchanger inside the intercooler as long air can pass through it at the rate required by the supercharger. Usually air passes over the heat exchange to cool what is inside but if what is inside is cooler then the air blowing over it then the air woudl get cooler and what is inside woudl get hotter. To think about it logically heat transfer shoudl be able to happen in either direction. The question is, is the efficiency the same in both cases? I would guess that if it is not the same then it is very close but that is based on absolutely nothing. lol Just a guess. I mean when cool air passes over your hot radiator the air becomes hot on the other side. But would it work as efficiently the other way? I have no clue. But I guess it doesn't matter as it will still cool it to some degree. I don't think it would work as well as what Jordy has setup on his boat as the jaguar intercoolers are simply bigger, but it woudl have to cool the intake charge pretty good. I guess if you got a thick enough oil cooler then it woudl work better but that is as generic as saying the bigger the intercooler is the better it will cool. But then again that is true until you reach a certain size. I hope my rambling was somewhat logical and would at least help you come to a conclusion. I have seen another roots style intercooler somewhere on the net but it was about $2500 but it really looked to be exactly the same as what you have here, but it was much smaller. I will post the link if I can find it.

Adam

 

[Zuffen]

The heat exchanger that Lex said was off a Lightning is the under bumper heat exchanger.

The unit in the manifold is in the attached photo. You will notice it is very thick.

I needs to be thick as the last 1/3 has very little cooling effect. You can't fit this unit on the 1UZ because the starter is in the way.

 

[svsgt1]

Well I guess you would need a lot of extra hood clearance to get that sucker inbetween the supercharger and instake manifold if you kept it above the starter. You would think that there woudl be another way other then using such a huge intercooler core but I guess there probablly isn't. I wonder what is on the inside of that piece that Zuffen had a picture of. Does it look like a regular heat exchanger sealed in an aluminum casing or is it something more special then that?

Adam

 

[Zuffen]

Na,

Just looks like any other heat exchanger.

 

[Deuce]

I think you will find the heat exchanger (intercooler core ) is made extra strong to withstand the boost pressures.

 

[Zuffen]

The intercooler matrix will be under internal and external pressure. The cooling system runs under a little pressure.

I don't see 15lb (or thereabouts) pushing from the outside is any different than 15lb pushing from the inside.

 

[Cobolt]

For cooling of the water, I would use the biggest car radiator that I could fit in front of the standard radiator. Oilcoolers aren´t preferred because of their material thickness (constructed to endure oilpreassure) - less efficient cooling compared to a ordinary car radiator.


For intercooling, I would use a Laminova intercooler if a plenum mounted IC is the suggested route. The laminova core intercoolers are a wery efficient design with minimal preassure drop, GM has recently signed a contract to use these intecoolers on their ecotec engines. For a plenum mount, the laminova is without competition.

http://www.opcon.se/subStart.asp?pageID=389&catId2=103&ContentID=13&subPageClick=1http://www.opcon.se/subStart.asp?pageID=390&catId2=103&ContentID=13&subPageClick=1

The laminova cores are mounted in a cluster as seen in the attatched picture (holes for the cores in the big plenum). The eninge below is a BMW straight 6 cyl engine with a Vortech supercharger.

 

[Deuce]

Rod, I was referring to the construction of the intercooler in particular the fins. I read somewhere about problems they were experiencing finding an intercooler that would not disintergrate under the boost they were using. It would be disasterous if the fins broke up due to poor construction or backfire. Best to use a purpose built intercooler like your Lightning unit or the Jag unit.

 

[Cobolt]

The fins are one aspect that often creates trouble, but the worst case is If the piping in a water to air intercooler brakes, you have a imminent chance of hydrolock that probably will destroy crank, rods and pistons.

One should only use water to air intercoolers that´s purpouse made and won´t brake due to pressurespikes or backfire. The Laminova units are tested in extreme enviroments and have a wery high durability.

Using a standard intercooler with water inside or even worse, a heater core from a cars heatingsystem is something that doesn´t have any margin for failures/tuning misstakes.

 

[Zuffen]

Deuce,

Attached photo of intercooler matrix.

Cobolt,

The early Lightnings suffered failed intercooler matrix's quite often and didn't seem to blow too many up. Ford recalled them and replaced them with the type I have.

It's made by Garrett so I guess the quality isn't too shaby!

 

[Cobolt]

Zuffen <<

Usually there´s just a small crack when an intercooler fails, and not much happens. But if mr murphy is around, a water to air interooler doesn´t just makes the boost gauge drop as damage on an air to air unit does! Personally I do preferr water to air intercoolers, I just want to put some light on this "flaw" and say that one should go for a solution without this problem - laminova isn´t the only design that can take our tuningmisstakes, any purpose build water to air unit should make it. Next to laminova core intercoolers I also like the pwr barrel units http://www.pwr-performance.com/intercooler.htm .

 

[Deuce]

Rod. I believe Cobolt and I are both on your side. We are just trying to highlight the pitfalls of not using a purpose built intercooler core. I personally,am seriously considering using the same Lightning Blower/intercooler set up as you have done. I think it will make an excellent combination.