Procharger Supercharger

[-Nemesis-]

Hi mate, been talking to Lex about this set up, though in my 4Runner I am limited by space forwards of the engine.
Any chance you could whack a tape measure on the front of the dizzy cover and tell me how far forwards of the engine the furthest part of the blower unit sits? Cheers.

Edit* after reading this thread again Lex, are you still pursuing the jack shaft idea? If so do you know roughly what cost it would add to the bracket? (still keen on measurement spf )

 

[spf_lexus]

I took a measurement and it looks like from the front face of supercharger bracket to very front edge of charger is 6'' and thats w/ no room for filter. i have 2'' and I still havent found a way... prob end up t-bolting a very fine screen to keep debris from messing up impeller blades. I have the air going thru the condensors as well as radiator before it hits the charger inducer so Its not filtered by any means but safe enough not to suck rocks. Hope the measurement helps... also, these Prochargers have a line of allen bolts along the middle so once mounted, it "swivels" in a full 360 degree for clearance. Very handy.

 

[spf_lexus]

After 3 hours of tinkering w/ my BOV i think it's been figured out. It took me, David at lextreme and Miles at DCH motor sports to find a solution. I took the tip David gave me and took out my BOV and fired her up hoping for a stable idle... and guess what?? it was worse than the closed bov! stalled almost immediately. What i came up with was the BOV spring needed to be softer to accommodate a 5psi pulley. TIAL doesn' have adjustment.. and doesn't have too many spring sizes. I noticed the 11psi spring was 3/4'' longer than the 9psi spring. TIAL doesn't make a size in between so i was screwed... i took a dremel and cut another 3/4'' off it and a little more after that and now its open 1mm at idle and it bleeds just enough off for a stable idle... also the surging for the most part is gone... need to grind off a few mm more. Its not 100%.. but very close... I need to post another vid of the idle once I find a vid camera! Its got a slight whine at low rpm but silent after 1500 and then starts building noticeable whine at 3000.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Good stuff, thanks for that mate! Keen to see/hear more videos as David has all but talked me into it hehe...

 

[stevechumo]

That's a good finding, Shawn. I never went supercharging before so I didn't know the BOV needs to be open at idle due to the supercharger pushing some air more than the atmospheric pressure. I know for a fact that the MAF on the 1UZ is very sensitive. It just happened to me about 2 weeks ago. I took out the intake pipe and forgot to plug in the MAF. I turned on the engine. It ran for a short time and stalled. I found the MAF is unplugged. I plugged it in but the engine kept stalling. I read the A/F ratio and it's way too rich down to 10:1. I had to keep the RPM high while reversing and drove like crazy for 5 minutes. That's when the ECU relearns and adjusts the fuel accordingly.

I hope to see you boosting 9 psi like crazy..whooh..whooh. Another boosted Lextremist! I'm running 9 psi right now and the accelleration pulls the passenger's butt back to the seat under boost. It's a scary & exciting feeling for any passenger. You may need an extra tranny cooler to be safe.

 

[spf_lexus]

haha yeah I took my dad out in it and he has a roots blower on a tacoma and was making fun of me saying "Well, all those big pipes are going to kill your bottom end"... My dad doesnt know much about cars so this was funny... I kept being humble w/ a no comment until I got my surging under control... I was only going 25mph... an area where my LS ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!!!! and it grabbed 2nd and I gave him a ride all the way to 6k and I had never chirped second in my automatic before lol. He was very impressed being a dad out of the 70's muscle car era where Camero SS was the norm. Anyway its only setup for 5psi, thats all Im reading up to redline, never crosses into the 6 mark so is this just the intercooler eating up 1psi of space?

Steve:
Yeah me and David have me sparring back and forth on this lol. David's right.. you need a way to bleed off the pressure at idle. Even though the centrifugal setups are very "turbo-related" a turbo doesn't build nearly as much idle boost pressure as a belt driven setup. The surging was making it really hard to drive but once i shaved the spring down my part-throttle was not near as bad

I read that "old school" centrifugals back in the day used to have horrible mid-throttle surging and thats when ppl started adopting bypass valves on the centrifugal... now I know why!

 

[-Nemesis-]

Just for future reference, what is the highest healthy psi you can go on a stock engine, that needs to be reliable day in day out?

Oh and it will be on sequential lpg injection too

 

[spf_lexus]

Hey nemesis how does your 4runner pull with a 1uz??? im moving to Colorado where they have harsh winters and started dreaming up how cool a 1uz 4runner would be... any parts that proved troublesome? I know its a little cramped from front to back im guessing?

As for the boost i have a 200,000 mile 1uz so i dont think anything above 6 or 7 for me... thats only 1 or 2 more but every one added is another 20rwhp or so. I think I might perfect my setup 1st and rebuild mine after 50k or so more... want to milk this engine lol. w/ some forged pistons then 14-16 psi on stock block would be pretty solid. I would say if your confident about your stock 1uz's shape then 12psi max IMHO could be daily driven, thats stock rods/pistons/head. I would highly recommend an intercooler over 10psi, just another insurance policy. Maybe a supra side mount IC? Toyota trucks have some decent space w/ the washer reservoir taken out.

 

[-Nemesis-]

I haven't heard of the side mount IC before?

The biggest drama with 4Runners is the room in the engine bay length wise. I had nothing but trouble with cooling, the only solution was an alloy radiator and very powerful BA Falcon (aussie) twin thermo fans. But to get it in I had to sink the radiator right into the support panel, even now there's about 10mm clearance between the back of the fans and the nearest pulley.

Otherwise it's not too bad, the V6 4Runners have the R150f standard! As for performance, it is awesome for a 4WD. But with todays technology it's only as quick as most normal sedans Hence i'm looking at the charger.

Oh and fitting the SS headers and cold air induction (soon to be custom snorkel) was one of the best mods I ever did, really brought it to life.

 

[-Nemesis-]

what's the driveability like with the procharger? Did it give it any significant gains at lower rpms? Or does it act like a turbo, boost wise?

 

[spf_lexus]

Cruising is near stock, cant really tell theres much going on under the hood. I was told that it wont build any boost at low rpm since its a relative of the turbo but they were wrong. yes it builds the majority above 2500rpm but before charger if my LS was needed at 25mph it SUCKED!! now the procharger grabs 2nd and jumps to 2500 when it starts building boost and from what I can describe is a very linear ride from that 2500 grab all the way to 6k and every gear after that since it wont be under 3k lol. Its very economical, no wasted gas under 3000rpm ( I read vacuum on freeway at 70-75).

 

[-Nemesis-]

Okay thanks, I have to work out if I want the lack of bottom end in my 4WD. Did you find your video recorder yet? :naughty:

 

[Lextreme II]

Here is what I got... Still a way to go.... its about 2.5-3" back.

 

[spf_lexus]

Ok im cutting my losses and getting rid of this brand new $220 TIAL BOV. If anyone is interested let me know....spent another $75 on springs thats are useless too. I cant get the surging under control... right now my idle is fine but surges like crazy if I go higher than 65mph... going up/down hills, its impossible to get right. I just wish there was a feasible way to run a freaking BOV like all the domestics do on a centrifugal. Anyway I'm going to buy an ugly, no frill Bosch bypass valve and will try that. If this doesn't work I think I might have to keep the charger off for a while.


I need instantaneous open/close so my apologies to everyone that tried to warn me... my own imaginative fault. But these valves open with how much vacuum?? I hear its as soon as any vacuum is present it opens and thats what I need because this BOV doesnt like to be left open at cruising speeds, too low boost to hold open at low rpm but too soft to keep under control at idle.


Anyone have any part numbers for generic bypass valves??

 

[stevechumo]

Well, losing the money on high performance parts is normal, especially when you have to do something that's not done before. Try some copy BOV. I'm using the copy Greddy for $25 from the lovely Ebay and it works like a champ. It's adjustable so it's easy to work with. The only thing when you buy the BOV is you don't know how it actually sounds. You may like or hate its sound. My BOV has the high pitch at low RPM, which I don't like much. But it has a very nice sequential "whooshh...whoosh..whoosh" after heavy boost.

 

[spf_lexus]

Yeah I was thinking about round 2 but then again I need a running car. This is my daily driver and have missed school due to INSANE surge half way down the freeway but I think its cool now. I just installed a Bosch 710 bypass valve for an audi TT. Its a diaphram based unit but only ran me $70. I tell you what, bypass was definently meant for centrifugal, the response is instantaneous. The BOV spring was not allowing the piston to open/close quick enough... thats why when I went to a softer spring it cleared a lot up but just moved to problem up/down the rev band.

-Just took her out and the idle is pretty stable w/ maybe 50rpm up/down (I can live w/ that for now). It has very good low end believe it or not, 2nd gear w/ boost is nothing like 2nd gear N/A. Also it sounds better! ... yes better and I have no idea why lol. It has a nice "flutter" on high rpm decel. "sounds pretty good IMO, better sound for the money I guess. could it be the unit not letting enough air out? i notice the belt will "chirp" if I let off abruptly at redline but nothing too bad.


One last problem and I think its just tuning... I still get some surge around 2500rpm... its only at part throttle too and could it just be because the bypass is still near the MAF? if I give more gas it goes away, of if I completely let off gas. weird problem but making strides nonetheless. On a side note, I have a kick down cable that never was set back to stock, I smashed the ball on the end of the cable that mounts inside the TB and it works but never screwed it back the same as stock and it deals w/ gear shift points, could this have something to do w/ the surging? maybe a gear shift issue?

 

[Lextreme II]

Yeah I was thinking about round 2 but then again I need a running car. This is my daily driver and have missed school due to INSANE surge half way down the freeway but I think its cool now. I just installed a Bosch 710 bypass valve for an audi TT. Its a diaphram based unit but only ran me $70. I tell you what, bypass was definently meant for centrifugal, the response is instantaneous. The BOV spring was not allowing the piston to open/close quick enough... thats why when I went to a softer spring it cleared a lot up but just moved to problem up/down the rev band.

-Just took her out and the idle is pretty stable w/ maybe 50rpm up/down (I can live w/ that for now). It has very good low end believe it or not, 2nd gear w/ boost is nothing like 2nd gear N/A. Also it sounds better! ... yes better and I have no idea why lol. It has a nice "flutter" on high rpm decel. "sounds pretty good IMO, better sound for the money I guess. could it be the unit not letting enough air out? i notice the belt will "chirp" if I let off abruptly at redline but nothing too bad.


One last problem and I think its just tuning... I still get some surge around 2500rpm... its only at part throttle too and could it just be because the bypass is still near the MAF? if I give more gas it goes away, of if I completely let off gas. weird problem but making strides nonetheless. On a side note, I have a kick down cable that never was set back to stock, I smashed the ball on the end of the cable that mounts inside the TB and it works but never screwed it back the same as stock and it deals w/ gear shift points, could this have something to do w/ the surging? maybe a gear shift issue?

I hate to say it.... but I TOLD YOU SO...LOL... I am glad you got it solve.

 

[spf_lexus]

yes David you are right!! lol I was thinking optimistically when I went on my BOV adventure. I picked the bosch 710n at the murrieta Volkswagen dealer (only one in area that had in stock) and ran me $75 w/ tax. Made another mounting flange and had the whole issue fixed in an hour.


Does anyone know why I surge at 2500?


Symptoms:

1. goes away w/ lifting pedal completely or adding another 1000 rpm and jump disappears.

2.hills have affects on this range, cruise control goes up/down going down hill

3. cruising will cause jumpiness at part throttle (flat surface)

4.Idle is slightly jumpy w/ 50rpm pulsations, raise it up to 700 and smooths out same as stock.


-could this just be me not having tuning done yet?

 

[hilux_bondy_007]

I haven't heard of the side mount IC before?

The biggest drama with 4Runners is the room in the engine bay length wise. I had nothing but trouble with cooling, the only solution was an alloy radiator and very powerful BA Falcon (aussie) twin thermo fans. But to get it in I had to sink the radiator right into the support panel, even now there's about 10mm clearance between the back of the fans and the nearest pulley.

Otherwise it's not too bad, the V6 4Runners have the R150f standard! As for performance, it is awesome for a 4WD. But with todays technology it's only as quick as most normal sedans Hence i'm looking at the charger.

Oh and fitting the SS headers and cold air induction (soon to be custom snorkel) was one of the best mods I ever did, really brought it to life.

hey mate, where in oz did u get those headers from and any pics of the cold air intake...would love to do that to mine so something like it..thanks

 

[-Nemesis-]

Hey mate, headers are from Venom in Qld.

The cold air intake is simply some 3" flexy hose from Autobarn, I cut a hole in the bottom of the airbox and through the panel underneath. It just runs down out and points forwards just under the front bar. No good for off road, though the side of the airbox is still open so I can block the pipe off need be for now.