Porting intake manifold, larger tb vs. itb's

[cribbj]

next option is to control the vac single to the actuator but what i really want is a valve i can open under boost as well to assist with turbo flow and parasitic drag.

You & I are shopping for the same thing - a dual port actuator. PWD says Andrew @ Richwood is selling them now, and I also found them at Whipple.

So for a "pull" type actuator, you can use vacuum on the top port above the diaphragm to pull it open for bypass operation, then use boost pressure on the bottom port, below the diaphragm to control boost. Sounds easy, but it'll probably take some fiddling with solenoid valves and software to make it work in the real world.

 

[JustenGT8]

Yes indeed and i just realised that most external WGs would fit the bill...might take a bit of plumbing in though.

Some further research into those that have twin charged seems to suggest that it's not worth the effort and i should always run all the turbo flow thru the SC? Something to play with down the track i guess.

 

[Jake Breyck]

Some further research into those that have twin charged seems to suggest that it's not worth the effort and i should always run all the turbo flow thru the SC? Something to play with down the track i guess.

There was an article a wile back In i think sport compact car magazine about there 1mz powered mr2, they twin charged it and the turbo pressure flowed though the supercharger. once the turbos where in boost the super charger started working in reverse, it added power to the engine though the belt instead of takeing it away. they worked out a way to mesure the added belt power and it was substantal.

 

[striker]

Erol,

Sorry my bad, the question wasn't pointed your way directly,

It was after John showed us the piccie of the ferrari F131 intake port.

I more or less asked/said:
I wonder how steep the intake angle can be made on a non vvt 1uzfe?

can the intake trackt be made such that the port entry faces straight down onto the valves, or isn't there enough meat on the port upper side to acomplish this?
I'm wondering if with the right amount of grinding and maybe welding up the floors of the intake ports original bend can be taken out to create somthing that looks more like an R1 or ferrari intake. just curious where the waterways are located.
does anyone have a head sliced up yet?

and now we're at it I'll asked you anyway, did the rear cylinders posed a problem because of the offset port center? I looked but if it needs to be straightened out aswell you'll end up dangerously close to the waterways.

grtz Thomas

(ps more and more simpathetic feelings to making an NA set-up aswell as the twin eaton set-up. since I have the tools and time to do so)

 

[Jake Breyck]

I'm wondering if with the right amount of grinding and maybe welding up the floors of the intake ports original bend can be taken out to create somthing that looks more like an R1 or ferrari intake. just curious where the waterways are located.
does anyone have a head sliced up yet?

I will soon get around to playing around with gutting out the ports on one of my heads, im not too worried about hitting passages, as ill just weld them up and start again, but i wont be doing any sliceing as i would like to use the heads in the end.

but i will be experamenting to see how much i can grind, ill share the info on this forum so we'll see.

 

[striker]

Nice one Jake keep us informed.

was thinking, I might be able to get my hands on a water-damage engine, from a friend (test and fit engine) he's finnished testing and fitting, I might chop one up, are there differences in the left and right heads? besides being mirror.

But sure someone will allready have this done.

Grtz Thomas

 

[jibbby]

In reality, at zero boost and even slight vac the turbo if providing more air to the engine that if there was no turbo. This means that in nearly all caes the turbo provide better throttle response than an n/a engine!

Intesting statement Justen...When I think of a single exhaust turbo system on a 1uz-fe motor, I think of re-piping the exhaust system, which includes reverse header work, twisty piping, etc.. Obviously, the exhaust system that is setup to work with a single turbo is going to much more restrictive then the basic modified N/A motor exhaust..Right? Now, I would think the turbo exhaust system would create more back pressure in the exhaust piping when the turbo is not spooling at start, so with that it would bring more lowend torque and power to the motor right at launch... Does that make sense? I know for fact, that when I created a better flowing exhaust on my SC400 (1uz-fe) I noticed the lowend power decrease slightly with each high flowing exhaust mod that I did..Even with the cat removals...More highend power was gained and some lowend power was lost.. Headers the same effect...

Basically with your vacume theory and a further restricted exhaust system a single turbo'd car should bolt out of the blocks until the turbo spools in theory... Would you say that is a correct statement on my part? However, I never hear about too many turbo guys saying their cars absolutely bolt right out of the blocks.

Basically can exhaust backpressure increase throttle response?

 

[Jake Breyck]

are there differences in the left and right heads? besides being mirror.
Grtz Thomas

No the heads are exaclly the same casting, just the machining was mirrored,

a right head could be made into a left head if needed by a machine shop.

 

[cribbj]

(ps more and more simpathetic feelings to making an NA set-up aswell as the twin eaton set-up. since I have the tools and time to do so)

Me too. I've got a lower intake manifold, and around 20 Suzuki TB's.

All I need is another motor, 4 wheels, and all the bits in between ;-)

 

[striker]

thanks jake,

Nah john, just loads of time, I'd try to make things exchangeble,

drive both then decide which is best for the givven car, in my case steel spaceframe replica..... which means freedom to do whatever I want.
I still think a well designed NA engine will benefit from supercharging better than a lesser desinged na engine.....

I'd ditch the lower manifold and make something a lot shorter.

btw what TB's have you got at hand? (size)

if next months paycheck does what I want it to do, I think might treat myself with a AC DC Tig, which probably means I'm in trouble over this matter.....irate: haha.
(this month it was a nice lathe which cost me best part of my free time last 2 weeks....)

grtz Thomas

 

[cribbj]

I have an assortment of GSXR 600 (old and new), 750 (old & new), and I think at least one set of old style 1000's.

When I say old, I mean the old style of four individual bodies, all coupled together. The new style are cast as 2bbl bodies, then two of those are bolted together for the 4 banger bike. The 2bbl bodies have the wrong centerlines to bolt directly to the 1UZ heads, but they would work with tapered adaptors. The old style would adapt to different C/L's a lot easier.

I'm pretty sure I have at least 3 sets of 4, of the old style 750's, because early on I was thinking of using them on my V12 project, until I came to my senses and realised they'd be totally wrong for that motor and that project.

I've got to say, I'm envious of what Mesa (Rob) is doing with that Ferrari motor. He's probably got less $$$ invested in it than some of us with these Lexus motors, and it's the genuine article. Plus, he's not going to have to worry about hitting 8K with it, and it'll make more horsepower and sound twice as good as ours will. But, one thing he won't have, is the satisfaction that comes from putting $10K to $15K into a $500 junkyard motor and turning it into a real screamer......at:

 

[striker]

those are all quite small then, If I'm going to do it, they'll be at least 45mm and hopefully a little bigger.

I expect to pay a HUGE amount of money on the frari engine & tranny combo, a LOT more than 15K to be precise, Lamborghini VAG V10's are easier and cheaper. but it aint no Frari.

If you find a combo Like Bob's for under 10K in the condition he has it in, I'll buy it straight away.

I'm willing to build even the entire car around it myself to save costs to run an engine like that, Flatplane v8 dreaaaaammmmmmmm on

anyway Back to topic.

 

[rms]

Erol,

I'm wondering if with the right amount of grinding and maybe welding up the floors of the intake ports original bend can be taken out to create somthing that looks more like an R1 or ferrari intake. just curious where the waterways are located.
does anyone have a head sliced up yet?

and now we're at it I'll asked you anyway, did the rear cylinders posed a problem because of the offset port center? I looked but if it needs to be straightened out aswell you'll end up dangerously close to the waterways.

All the ports are offset. The end port is just offset the opposite direction to the others.
Don't think water will be the problem, valve spring seat area may break through.

Trying to straighten and centre the port is our next step, but don't hold your breath !

 

[JustenGT8]

Jibbby, back pressure in an exhaust is always bad. Don't confuse scavenging from exhaust tuning with backpressure. Tuning comes from header design and then from headers back it is exhaust sizing and flow path that determines backpressure. Bigger is not always better either as this can create backpressure rather than improve it.

Any changes also need the tune varied to take full advantage of them and with the stock ECU this can't be done. This is why gains frm a modified exhaust only are usually pretty small and people often go backwards....this is also the source of the myth that some backpressure is good.

As for turbos not quick outta the hole. You have to compare apples with apples, which is why i used the example of my engine against a stock UZ as the only difference is i added the turbos...so, to say again, my engine will kill a stock UZ anywhere...any gear...any rpm...it will be more responsive

 

[jibbby]

Justen, I know back pressure defeats the purpose and is bad.. Hense the old quote "No exhaust is the best exhaust".....

I was just thinking with a single turbo setup on let's say a 1uz-fe motor there should be alot of back pressure with the exhaust piping designs and the turbo in place...thus making the turbo'd car very responsive out of the blocks until the turbo spools.... This doesn't seem to be the case though....

Just a simple thought, and was wondering if I was correct in assuming this?


Now as far as your car killing every stock 1uz-fe anywhere in any gear..I guess I can say the same with the car and nitrous.. I would hope so or our cars would be pathetic Justen......

Oh, and Justen I know your the big boy on the block with your ride but I think I will take you in one gear with my car and that one gear would be "reverse"..:sgrin: . My reverse gear is wicked, you hit the nitrous in reverse and your torso is planted against the steering wheel while your face is planted against the front windshield...It get's ugly, wanna race? .oke:

 

[XR8tt]

N20 and turbo.. Now your talking....

BTW exhaust back pressure can be as high as 2x's boost without issues.. Especially if it near top rpm..

Jibby forget about back pressure on turbo engines.. Who cares its making power!!! As much as you keep stating the wrongs with turbo ???
The forces on a s/c belt via crank would be much more,its mechanical which can break.. N20 is ILLEGAL here [Aussie] to run on street, big fines and big chance of getting car confiscated and sold...

 

[Jake Breyck]

N20 is ILLEGAL here [Aussie] to run on street, big fines and big chance of getting car confiscated and sold...

Its illegal in califonia as well, but the car gets confiscated and chushed.

 

[XR8tt]

Get cought a second time here doing a burnout and your car is gone...
That could be alittle skid...Loss of traction "can" be deemed as burnout!!

 

[jibbby]

Get cought a second time here doing a burnout and your car is gone...
That could be alittle skid...Loss of traction "can" be deemed as burnout!!

That's horrible....I would have lost my car years ago if that was the case here in Cali....USA...

We do have a law that is called "exibition of speeding" and it carries stiff fines, probation, and severe penalties including having the car impounded which you can later get back.....I got an exhibition of speeding ticket many years ago for doing a burnout for a block in my friends 5.0 CHP mustang car and that ticket really kicked my arse....irate:

 

[SCV8]

I looked into this a few years ago, found the stock intake runners to start at 41.5mm and end at around 38mm at the head.I've had several cars with Webers and homemade intake manifolds in the past.
I did find this site to be interesting;

www.928developments.com/morepics.htm

Just never found time to really work on anything with a new family and all.
I did however find time to make the dividers inside my intake ports look alot like those in that Ferrari photo, and to find a bunch of restrictions inside the MAF. The rubber gasket between the airbox was the first, then the divider between the bypass was the next thing to get the roundover treatment. The stock panel filter cut airflow dramatically above 4500 rpm. Nearly each step took additional tuning to be realized, and the fuel pressure was the means.