Oil Jets

[Zuffen]

I wouldn't expect oil pressure to be a problem.

You'll notice it uses a check valve so it doesn't flow at low oil pressure which usually relates to low engine revs.

At low revs the pistons won't need cooling and it ensures there's adaquate oil pressure for the idling engine.

At high revs there is abundant oil pressure.

I know Porsche didn't change their oil pump when they installed their squirters in 1971. Without the squirters they couldn't have run the turbo 930 engine due to melting pistons.

 

[cribbj]

David, keep us posted how it goes with getting these installed on your dead 1UZ block. I think this is a mod worth having if anyone is turbo'ing or SC'ing their 1UZ.

It's been a controversial topic in the Supra camp for years. Some think these oil squirters are superfluous or OTT, and the 2JZ short block is every bit as good as the 2JZ-GTE. I happen to think Toyota engineers don't do something extra unless they've got a good reason for it. They went to the extra (more costly) step of machining the blocks for the GTE motor to install these jets, and they probably had a REAL good reason for doing it.

Anyway, I'd certainly like to install a set of these with my 1UZ rebuild if it proves feasible.

John

 

[autronic]

There are several reasons why the oil jets are used, but the main reason is cooling the pistons.

When you splash oil on the underside of the pistons on a turbo engine you remove a lot of heat
from the pistons. When the pistons runs "cooler" they need less clearance to the cylinder wall and
the engine does not sounds like a diesel when you start it cold.

The piston is cooler on the underside and the top of the piston will also be colder, and this
will prevent detonation to a degree. If you don't have detonation you can bump up the
static compression ratio or you can increase the boost pressure.

All in all, the oil jets is "a good thing" ( tm ).


cribbj:

A friend of mine have a 1JZGTE engine and this have oil jets. The solution on this engine
is even better than just having the oil squirted on the underside, the oil enters a dedicated
"channel" in the piston, so the oil splashes around inside the piston before it is drained back
from another hole 180 degrees opposite the entrance hole.

 

[cribbj]

Thanks Autronic, I'm aware of the reasons and benefits of the squirters.

I was trying to make the point, (and didn't do it very well), that the Toyota engineers would not have done something for the GTE motor over the GE, that involved extra manhours and more money, unless they felt it was necessary. I've found over the last 19 years of owning Toyota Supras that the Toyota engineers rarely do something unless there's a real good reason for it. So IMHO, installing oil squirters on a FI engine is definitely not OTT, it's sound engineering.

Our 2JZ engines have those same oil ports in the pistons too. Hats off to the Toyota engineers again for the great design in the bottom end of that motor.

John

 

[Lextreme II]

John,

Most definately. The nozzles should arrive soon and i will do some pictures on it.

 

[rarson]

I'd rather have higher oil pressure than piston squirters. In fact, I've seen a number of people pinch off or remove the squirters in engines that came with them. I've also seen a lot of high horsepower, turbocharged engines not run them. Just keep in mind that you are altering lubrication of the other parts by adding squirters. I don't think they are a bad idea or that they are necessary (I'm neutral on this issue), but I'm not going to be adding them to an engine any time soon.

I know on certain 4g63 motors that are prone to crankwalk, it is advisable to remove the squirters to better lubricate the crank. These engines use a nozzle with a ball and spring "check valve," and the theory is that they get stuck open, allowing way too much oil to go out of the squirter instead of to the mains.

 

[cribbj]

This is the "other" school of thought from the Supra camp. Many high HP owners are running GE short blocks without the squirters and are apparently doing OK without them.

Interesting point about the crank walk. We've had a few 2JZ-GTE blocks suffer crank walk, but it was attributed to the mondo clutches with high clamping pressures that the owners were running, and lack of lubrication at startup. Many have "fixed" their crank walk problem by disabling the clutch switch, however the engine was rebuilt in the process, so time will tell whether the problem is truly fixed or not.

Of course the squirters in these blocks "should" have been disassembled and cleaned during the rebuild, so if they were actually the root cause, then that's been fixed too....

Good to have another point of view.

John

 

[username]

Cribbj,

Thank you for the diagram. It appears that the depiction calls for four oil jets per piston...
"Four oil jets for each piston are added"

Is this just a english-translation issue or are 32 jets really needed. I am assuming the first... just thought I would ask the obvious for the sake of clarity

 

[cribbj]

I think it must be an English translation issue. The 2JZ-GTE squirters are only single hole jets, and we have six of them in those engines, one for each cylinder.

I don't see how or why they would have 4 jets per piston, but perhaps it'll become clearer when David gets the pieces in.

John

 

[rarson]

Interesting point about the crank walk. We've had a few 2JZ-GTE blocks suffer crank walk, but it was attributed to the mondo clutches with high clamping pressures that the owners were running, and lack of lubrication at startup. Many have "fixed" their crank walk problem by disabling the clutch switch, however the engine was rebuilt in the process, so time will tell whether the problem is truly fixed or not.

Yeah, I disabled my clutch switch as well, since mine is one of the problem years engines. I think that is a major cause for it, but also as you said, a lot of people with heavy pressure plates got it too. However, the amount of completely unmodified engines which walked, some numerous times (the replacement engines walked too), was enough to rule out the pressure plate as the sole cause. I'm running a 2500-lb plate in my car, and I'm fine so far.

Magnus Motorsports tore apart an engine and tested the oil squirters to see what pressure they'd open at. None of them were the same. The range was pretty large, if I remember correctly they were anywhere from 11-40 psi. They also tested more than just four, so it's reasonable to assume that the quality of these squirters in particular is less than optimal.

In previous years, Mitsubishi used a different design which did not need the ball/spring check valve, and very few of those engines have walked. Considering the huge number of people running around with plates anywhere from 2100-3500 lbs, it's a pretty good indication that those valves are where the fault lies.

Of course the squirters in these blocks "should" have been disassembled and cleaned during the rebuild, so if they were actually the root cause, then that's been fixed too....

Good to have another point of view.

John

While I do agree that they at least should be cleaned, at least in the 4g63's case I think it's best to remove them entirely. Magnus did clean them before testing, and the results were still erratic. With a tolerance as huge as that, I don't think I'd trust them.

Of course, as I have been saying, most of this applies to only the 4g63. However, I would be extremely cautious about any engine using a ball/spring check valve and I would be VERY interested to see someone test them, and get some data on when they actually open.

EDIT: I was quite a bit off on my numbers. Though 40 psi was mentioned, it wasn't when they were opening (I haven't read this in at least 2 years). Here is the complete write-up, complete with pictures of the squirters and the block they hacked up. Good stuff.

The pressures are down about 3/4 of the page.

 

[Zuffen]

Good read and a lot of hard work in trying to find a solution.

I think I'll fit squirters (I've been driving cars fitted with them for 20 years and haven't killed an engine yet) on the basis they are new, so won't have tired springs or be partially blocked by crud.

I figure use a good synthetic oil and change the filter regularly and they have got to be of great benefit.

 

[Cobolt]

Interesting writeup.

But it seems that a simpler and more reliable (but unfortunatley more expensive) solution would be to keep the squirters, remove the checkvalves entirely, install a oilpump with more flowcapacity (if $ enough, in the same time convert to a drysump) and live happily ever after.. maby also a relief valve that recirculates oil when the predefined maximum oil pressure is reached - to much oil pressure isn´t good either.

 

[Lextreme II]

The kit come with four units and each unit has 2 nozzles. Gang, just got these nozzles today and I couldnt wait to post those pics up. The nozzle have a spring loaded ball to shut off oil when its at low pressure and open up at high pressure. I am not sure at what pressure it will open. I guess i can test it out with a vacuum gauge.

Anyone have a 2005 2uzfe motor out and can take some pictures of it..... Noticed the mounting bracket.

 

[Toysrme]

Looks awsome! Let's face it, most toyota engines have relatively low psi idling, that build up pleanty of pressure once they get to revving.
I wouldn't care at all between 10-22psi for the jets to turn on. They'll still be on when they need to be. Lex if you're concerned about it, you can always hook them up to a compressor & test them!

This is so hot!
I hope next time I have my oil pan off on my v6 I can find an oil galley!

 

[lowboost]

very nice, what will these cost?

 

[Toysrme]

I just got off the phone with a local Toyota dealer. The oil nozzle part number is 1579050010. Its $9.69 each and you need four of them.

Probably $9.69usd + whatever it costs to drill the block for oil (if there is any) + drilling & tapping threads for the bolts that hold them in + bolts.

 

[rarson]

Looks awsome! Let's face it, most toyota engines have relatively low psi idling, that build up pleanty of pressure once they get to revving.

Well see that's the problem with the Mistubishi oil squirters. They get stuck open and then the already low pressure at idle gets even lower and starts hurting bearings.

Those squirters look pretty nice. A lot better than the Mitsu squirters.

 

[Lextreme II]

We got the pressure measurement today. We used a leakdown test kit for this test. We found out the breaking point is at 35 psi and full flow is at 40 psi. I am not sure if the aerodynamic would be different from fluid-dynamic. From the compressed air is 35 psi. I am also finding out if there is an O-Ring that comes with it.

I also used my dead block for some testing. I used a 11/32" drill bit and made a hole into the oil gallery. Its a very simple procedure and here are some pictures. I did not drill or tap the screw but u get the point.

 

[Toysrme]

To play with cars, you gotta have no fear. You my friend, have no fear! That is great! You just gave 1uz-fe's another barrel of power to have LoL!
You're the man!

 

[sniper]

^^^^Agreed. Now the Supra guys can not say anything. They kept harping on us saying the motor will not make over 800HP with out oil jets, but whats up now heheheheheeeeeee..............From here we can now test rod/crank clearence but im sure we can make it work.



This has been yet another fantastic break through for the 1UZ community all thanks to Mr. Lextreme himself!