Obama

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XR8tt said:
You are forgetting about the 4,221 in Iraq and 850 in Afghanistan soldiers who died in action since 03.. Plus many soldiers from other countries!!
I feel for their families...
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Those people didn't just go for the will of Bush. They went to defend their country against all threats, foreign and domestic. They went to establish the first true democracy in the region and take a dictator out of power. Keep in mind that many men and women enlisted AFTER the conflict was declared, even some of my friends just out of high school this past year. Our armed forces are purely volunteer. You don't sign up to defend a country without knowing the risks... It isn't all about the statistics you hear on CNN.
 
Xr8tt - No of course I have not forgotten about the war...US Congress and most Americans and some other countries supported going to war against Iraq at the time... If that is to be classified as a Bush F-up then all Americans and some other countries, the United Nations and the Bush Administration should be held responsible for that also..

War is ugly and people die... I don't like the war either...However, I've been watching report shows on Iraq of late, and the people of Iraq are happier, thanking troops, and are finally being liberated and feel safe.. I believe it is not all for not... Some of the Iraq elderly people's life dreams were to one day vote for an publically elected official in Iraq.. Those dreams have become reality.... I believe this war has finally made a difference for the better in Iraq.....

The war against terrorism continues, more innocent people will die, more will suffer and we should never turn our backs to this..

I commend all the soldiers of all the countries that have and are still laying their lives on the line for this war.....
 
Ahh you got me wrong we went there too [Australia] and still are .. It's just that these people should not be forgotten..
I could argue about weapons of mass destruction etc..
Good you are patriotic. But time will tell how much of a nutter he was..
Unfortunately this has to be a long term war to get the job done properly..
Looking at it from outside.. Without politics involved..
 
I agree we are not sure about the past pro-claimed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq......However, we are sure that Saddam was being very defiant to the UN sanctions, we also know that he was torchering and killing his own people, Etc...Etc...

As far as me being a Patriot, sure why not.. We all like to back up our own Countries, it's leaders most of the time, and it's rights to freedom.. This is where we are born and raised. We know it's histories, the sacrificies our founding fathers made to ensure our freedoms. The freedoms that we all enjoy so much today and that most of us take for granted... However, more so then all I am strongly in favor of world peace.

I and many others see these extreme religious groups getting in the way of world peace and future progression.. It all starts in the middle east, then the Phillipeans, etc... You really can't be diplomatic with these religious extremists, you can't turn your back either and leave them alone and hope it will all work out...It's really a tough situation for civil Countries to deal with that way of thinking. I know this to be true just looking and reading about the troubles Isreal and it's people face daily......It's always over religion too, both sides... Such a shame as religion should teach people peace and love and not war..

My thinking is - Lack of education is the real hinderance in these 3rd world Countries.. The ignorance then latches onto extreme religious beliefs, prejudices, etc... That is a problem that brews into something big and ugly over time.

The civil world doesn't think or act like them...The extremists don't see a world peace either, they simply just don't play well with others.. Freedom of religion is just not a part of their vocabulary...

Now what would happen if these religious extremists got their hands on long range Nukes and or weapons of mass destruction? I would hate to guess what would happen next... Politics or not that sounds like a real threat to me. I think more Countries need to wake up and take action to protect future safety...... Obama seems like he will be on it, thank god.....

The information is out and on the web for starters.... Weapons can be obtained and or made so easily today.. It's just scary. Google it and it's practically right there..

That is all as I got to say and I am sorry for getting too vocal and a little carried away....
 
Jibbby.. It's hot here 42*c How about coming with me and have a COLD beer at the club ?? It's too hot! Even to be in the pool!!
 
jibbby said:
Everyone loves to bash Bush... Which is understood from the economic decline of the Country while he was in term.. War blunders and delays...Etc..

For us Americans the one thing he did very well was protect us from further terrorist attacks... Bush did extremely well with the war against terrorism which everyone seems to overlook.. I also don't think he is an evil man... Maybe stupid, but not evil.... The economies took a beating for sure, but no more Americans died from terrorist attacks on the home land after 9/11... quote]

from an outsiders point of view he didnt do very well at all, it seems he pulled a not very sly move to justify invading iraq
"look here, the terrorists have invaded our country, we must go and get them, oh we cant get osama in afghanistan so we`ll go to another middle east country where they also wear rags on thier heads and have oil, they must be terrorists too! and they have weapons of mass destruction too. oops they dont actually have any weapons, but we`ll stay there anyway"

how many americans were killed by "terror" attacks prior to 9/11? and how many have died while mr bush has been in power, as a result of 9/11?

not having a go at you personally, it just seems we get a different point of view not living in the U.S
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Over 5000 U.S citizens have died in both wars..Of they where volunteers but it doesn't make it right..
Hope the families are well looked after AND the soldiers with injuries including mental issues!!
 

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Clint, You and I really don't know the exact politic's behind this war. We know what the media feeds us and we draw our own conclusions from that... Did Bush push the war for unknown reasons? Oil, popularity, retaliation, personal agenda, etc.. We can't be certain and that is why there are conspiracy theories.... As an American, my mother works in a Government classified job, brother was in the US Airforce and ranked high recently, so I tend to believe what they are telling me first hand.... Media really beats up the USA and Bush overseas too, and it's usually all negative.. I don't blame you for feeling the way you do...

Seeing those planes crash into those twin towers on prime news live in New York city really pissed me off... I was angry and wanted payback, I wanted to go to war with whom ever was responsible.. It was such a cowardly attack on innocent people.. Now how would you feel if terrorists crash planes into your own back yard like Sidney taking out thousands of innocent Australian's, family and friends... What would you want done?

Now, I know Iraq wasn't responsible for that but they did house many religious extremists that were cheering that cowardly act on... Now if Suddam was crazy enough to build and possibly use weapons of Mass destruction against innocent countries, continued to be defiant to UN inspections and sanctions, and if he infact supported and harbored a few amount terrrorists, then that was a good enough reason for me to agree to go to war against Saddam..etc... I was very much in favor of the war as many other Americans were also at the time..Congress gave the ok, and the public supported it... Bush pushed on the war agenda.. Some foreign countries were ok with it and others saw the US as a typical bully flexing it's muscles... I would like to think there were good reasons for going to war in the first place.. It just didn't work out as planned and Bush is naturally going to get the main blame for it...Not Congress but Bush... Not the public but Bush.. Does the media ever mention that?

I am not a big Bush supporter either.. I just think he shouldn't get all the blame for the war... Economy failing was his advisors responsibility so I do believe he should be held responsible for that.. He hired the clowns that screwed things up..

What's done is done...I am just hoping Obama can turn this all around..A change was needed and it has come...Let's all hope it's for the best..

In conclusion, look at what happened with Hitler, you let him go and he takes over the world and kills everyone that is not blond haired with blue eyes... These types of dictators I feel need to be delt with before they get extremely powerful... North Korea scares me a little bit too...
 
from an outsiders point of view he didnt do very well at all, it seems he pulled a not very sly move to justify invading iraq
"look here, the terrorists have invaded our country, we must go and get them, oh we cant get osama in afghanistan so we`ll go to another middle east country where they also wear rags on thier heads and have oil, they must be terrorists too! and they have weapons of mass destruction too. oops they dont actually have any weapons, but we`ll stay there anyway"

how many americans were killed by "terror" attacks prior to 9/11? and how many have died while mr bush has been in power, as a result of 9/11?

not having a go at you personally, it just seems we get a different point of view not living in the U.S
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Look bud, our hasn't had any drops in oil from our occupation of Iraq. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will the government of Iraq. Just to give you an idea of our oil imports, the top 3 are Canada, Mexico, and Saudi Arabia. None of them are at war with us, nor do we occupy them.
 
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