Critique my single turbo headers

[stilltippin]

Hey, thanks for coming by, I just want some knowledgeable people to critique my headers/manifolds. I first started with a "horseshoe" setup, and run a log style manifold on my passenger side and run my turbo behind the passenger headlight. Since both attempts failed, I let the project die. I am practicing welding, but it's much easier for me to use OE manifolds and run (2) 2.0" pipes into a y-pipe that has a 3.0" outlet.

Things to know,
- I rebuilt the car after buying it for $400, I wasn't happy with it just sitting there so one day I just got the motivation to just have at it.
- I am not a professional welder, I am a mechanic so I know how to, but I bought my own tig and now I'm learning.
- This is a budget build with most things coming from Craigslist, eBay, or Junkyards.
- I am not running an AC compressor, lines, condenser, etc.
- (2) 2.0" pipes will feed a y-pipe that has a single 3.0" outlet that will travel about 6 inches and feed the T3 flange/footprint.

Any information that you think is necessary, feel free to add. If your just going to harp on my sheit, go ahead and waste your time. Thank you.

 

[stilltippin]

It won't let me edit it, but I forgot to mention that I will be installing v-band clamps to make installing/removing more simple.

I know the setup will fit, I am just trying to see if it'll work for now, or if you think it's too restrictive or what.

 

[JustenGT8]

That'll do the job No pretty but turbos are quite forgiving. Don't go to a 3 inch merge pipe, too large. Try and merge the 2 pipes off the manifolds into something not much larger...say 2.25 or 2.5 inch at most. This will help with exhaust gas velocity. Your turbine is the big choke point so don't be worried about it looking too small.....the x-sectional area of your turbine housing entry is a good refence to base your pipe dia off

 

[stilltippin]

That is the advice I was so desperately looking for. I just so happen to have 2 3/8" piping at my house, I will try that and see what I can come up with. Thanks again, I appreciate the help. P.s. Your Celica is badass.

 

[Supra967]

That'll do the job No pretty but turbos are quite forgiving.

definitely something to remember, especially on a budget build. Spend more money on the fuel system or a piggy back. Years ago I built some v8 manifolds out of scrap pipe worse than most stock castings you'd see and managed to open the waste gate at a very reasonable RPM.

One question though... If you're a learner welder why are you going for the lobster style bending? Looks like some fairly large radius' there, would be much easier, quicker and probably cheaper to buy a $25 doughnut.

 

[stevechumo]

I'd agree with Justen there. 3" pipe is too big and it'll probably create turbo lag. 2.5" will give better velocity and pressure. There's 1 thing that I see is the pipes are straight curved. It'll create more disruption in air flow. Basically, the smooth pipes are more ideal.

 

[stilltippin]

definitely something to remember, especially on a budget build. Spend more money on the fuel system or a piggy back. Years ago I built some v8 manifolds out of scrap pipe worse than most stock castings you'd see and managed to open the waste gate at a very reasonable RPM.

One question though... If you're a learner welder why are you going for the lobster style bending? Looks like some fairly large radius' there, would be much easier, quicker and probably cheaper to buy a $25 doughnut.

Hey, thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insight, I need a fair amount. I'm not entirely sure what lobster style bending is. I chose to use straight piping and wagiri construction because it was free, as I had all the supplies. I called Midas to ask if they'd bend me something and they wanted $50 for 2 bends. I could've ordered the bends but I didn't want to buy something I could make. I might loose a few hp, but doing it all by myself has been pretty rewarding.

I'd agree with Justen there. 3" pipe is too big and it'll probably create turbo lag. 2.5" will give better velocity and pressure. There's 1 thing that I see is the pipes are straight curved. It'll create more disruption in air flow. Basically, the smooth pipes are more ideal.

Hey Steve, not sure if you remember but I pm'd you about a year ago with quite a few questions, now I'm actually getting around to them. I decided not to go with a 3", but instead merged my 2" manifolds together and formed a square that is slightly larger than the T3 opening. I couldn't this of a good way to tie in the wastegate so I ended up with this... Nothing great but it allows a little easier install/removal.
It's basically (2) 2" round tubes formed into a single rectangle with a wastegate inlet that comes out the bottom where they both merge. Both pipes have a v-band that allows it to be installed separate from both manifolds.

Not pretty by any means, but it will be cleaned up and spray with high temp paint.
By the way, my name is Justin too.

 

[stilltippin]

Boo for no edit button...

 

[Supra967]

hmmm, not sure how 'free' it would be with all that cutting and welding. Certainly get some welding practice out of it

 

[XR8tt]

Buy some mandrel bends.. Merge the pipes before turbine by cutting them in half with 45* so the two pipes merge at near the same size...
If you go to your local steel merchant he'll possibly have / sell mild steel steam pipe forged bends, for moderate power gains 1 1/4 primaries make over 750 h.p..
Keep manifolds small, helps spool...
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Making-Turbo-Manifolds-Part-1/A_2604/article.html
It's best not to exit the wastegate off at 90* if you can help it...

 

[stilltippin]

hmmm, not sure how 'free' it would be with all that cutting and welding. Certainly get some welding practice out of it

Well your correct the chop saw nor tig welder were free, nor the wire, gas, grinder, or other consumables. As far as the steel goes, everything that you've seen was made with 2.0" aluminized steel tubing. The reason being it my dad had (5) 2' sticks that He had left over from a another project. The next step was to call around and see if anyone would bend it, no reasonable answer so I started chopping and welding angles.

Buy some mandrel bends.. Merge the pipes before turbine by cutting them in half with 45* so the two pipes merge at near the same size...
If you go to your local steel merchant he'll possibly have / sell mild steel steam pipe forged bends, for moderate power gains 1 1/4 primaries make over 750 h.p..
Keep manifolds small, helps spool...
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Making-Turbo-Manifolds-Part-1/A_2604/article.html
It's best not to exit the wastegate off at 90* if you can help it...

Hey, thanks for the response. I will try to find some local distributors or prebent steam piping, Home Depot doesnt carry bends. The reason why it's staight tubing cut at angles is because I had straight tubing no one would bend for a reasonable amount, so I decided on the wagiri construction.
Do you think the factory manifolds are too big or do you think the 2" runners are too big?
The problem is that I don't really have a lot of room for my merge as it's going into an LS400. As you can see in this picture, I don't have tons of room and im sure another 90* bend would be best, but the room that I have is tough to make an even length merge. I was struggling for ideas for a merge with a wastegate that was equally plumbed on both sides. I guess I could've stemed off the side of the tube, but flat surfaces are easier to work with. Is the reason being that the air just doesn't flow very well around a 90*? is it possible I might see boost creep with a Tial 38mm?

Thanks again for the help. This is pretty much what I've come up with. Again, budget build, using what I have or buying it at a good price. I'm not looking for 500rwhp, it's just going to be a budget build and a learning process, in welding, fabricating, tuning, etc. I have no worries that the engine will hold 7psi but I'm not sure the 185k mile tranny will.

 

[stevechumo]

Honestly speaking, I don't think aluminized steel can withstand the heat before the turbo. For pipe size, the stock manifold collector is about 1.75", so going up to 2" shouldn't be a problem. But I prefer 1.75" for any single pipe. Then merging from right & left banks will be 2.5" before the turbo.

Also, don't forget to have at least 2 brackets that hold the whole thing to the engine. More brackets are better, if you can.

 

[stevechumo]

1 thing that I notice is the before-turbo pipe is too close to the steering pump and other parts. The high temp won't be enough to keep the heat inside. The pipe should be wrapped up. I did try to paint my turbo system 3 different times in the past with 2000 degree ceramic paint, but they're not enough. They didn't last. The final result is I had to take the system to a professional ceramic coating shop to coat it inside out. It's not hot to the point to burn the surrounding parts, but it's still hot.

 

[XR8tt]

If the two pipes are merged before turbine it would make it a better fit .. Although as said 2 1/4 could be better..
Yes aim for a power level and build to that.. No point in having some pipes sections which bulk up the engine bay that would flow 1000 h.p...
IMO the front crossover pipe could be merged into the rear

bank.. Where the turn up is with a V clamp just under...
It would be easier to insulate heat wise also.. I prefer shields in hot spots over tape insulation as it holds too much heat and cracks the piping, when water / moisture is added corrosion is very very fast...
GOOD on you for having a go.. Good on ya for having the honesty to show your work.. Strange there is almost the same post on www.theturboforums.com where there is some good advice etc...​

 

[Supra967]

i reckon its a pretty good effort where most people wouldn't even bother. Few things to note for next time out of it, and definitely watch the heat, that is very close to the cam cover there. Drive it around, if spool is so bad you want to shoot yourself in the face, take them off and start again

For what its worth, looking at your setup I can see about $60 worth of mandrel bends, less for steam pipe i think. I had a bad experience with a moron custom bending pipe, its just easier to work around standard sections.

 

[stilltippin]

Honestly speaking, I don't think aluminized steel can withstand the heat before the turbo. For pipe size, the stock manifold collector is about 1.75", so going up to 2" shouldn't be a problem. But I prefer 1.75" for any single pipe. Then merging from right & left banks will be 2.5" before the turbo.

Also, don't forget to have at least 2 brackets that hold the whole thing to the engine. More brackets are better, if you can.

Well, if I have to start over it's going to be after these pipes melt with everything around it. If I build a new set, I'll be sure to run (2) 1.75" to a 2.5" merge. Do you mean brackets from the manifolds "crossover" to the block? Or are you referring to the turbo? I definitely am going to support both sides of the flex coupler.

1 thing that I notice is the before-turbo pipe is too close to the steering pump and other parts. The high temp won't be enough to keep the heat inside. The pipe should be wrapped up. I did try to paint my turbo system 3 different times in the past with 2000 degree ceramic paint, but they're not enough. They didn't last. The final result is I had to take the system to a professional ceramic coating shop to coat it inside out. It's not hot to the point to burn the surrounding parts, but it's still hot.

Yeah, I didn't think that it was really going to hold, as it doesn't even hold on NA motors for the most part and these will be hotter. I will make sure that the area around the power steering pump and alternator are wrapped up to insulate some heat.

If the two pipes are merged before turbine it would make it a better fit .. Although as said 2 1/4 could be better..
Yes aim for a power level and build to that.. No point in having some pipes sections which bulk up the engine bay that would flow 1000 h.p...
IMO the front crossover pipe could be merged into the rear

bank.. Where the turn up is with a V clamp just under...
It would be easier to insulate heat wise also.. I prefer shields in hot spots over tape insulation as it holds too much heat and cracks the piping, when water / moisture is added corrosion is very very fast...
GOOD on you for having a go.. Good on ya for having the honesty to show your work.. Strange there is almost the same post on www.theturboforums.com where there is some good advice etc...​

I'm not a member but I do cruise there all the time. I am doing a build at clublexus, but I only seek Lextreme knowledge as you've honestly be there and done it. The insides of the merge are recessed to allow some sort of pressure equalization, not much but better than both of them meeting right at the T3 flange. I really am just excited to get it on the road. I was sort of worried that 2" was sort of small but now I know better. If I hadn't of gotten it for free, I might be upset, but I think will the size of my turbo I should make moderate power. If I have to choose a number, I would say 350rwhp.

i reckon its a pretty good effort where most people wouldn't even bother. Few things to note for next time out of it, and definitely watch the heat, that is very close to the cam cover there. Drive it around, if spool is so bad you want to shoot yourself in the face, take them off and start again

For what its worth, looking at your setup I can see about $60 worth of mandrel bends, less for steam pipe i think. I had a bad experience with a moron custom bending pipe, its just easier to work around standard sections.

Thanks again for the advice, I am sure I could budget build a setup buying bends now, but it took me a bit of time to come up with the existing setup not having to remove the alternator, ps pump, and other accessories. That being said, I could easily go back and copy my shape will mandrel bends. I just want boost....

On another note, is there a problem with having the MAF so close to the TB besides having a 90*?

 

[stevechumo]

I mean brackets from the manifold/pipe and near the turbo because the turbo is very heavy. When the pipe is glowing hot, the pipe gets soft and weakened, so brackets is a must to hold everything.

The MAF should be ok in that location near the TB. But the BOV should be located before the MAF and way far to the front for at least 12". 24" is even better.

 

[XR8tt]

Thought of suck through meter ??

 

[stilltippin]

I mean brackets from the manifold/pipe and near the turbo because the turbo is very heavy. When the pipe is glowing hot, the pipe gets soft and weakened, so brackets is a must to hold everything.

The MAF should be ok in that location near the TB. But the BOV should be located before the MAF and way far to the front for at least 12". 24" is even better.

That makes more sense, so instead of worrying about supporting the flex coupler, I will make a support bracket for the turbo and one for the flex coupler, that should suffice, right?

Sounds good, I was worried about the 90* so close might not give air enough room to flow after the sensor, but it saves me from having to put 2 couplers and a pipe there instead of one coupler. Here is a mock up of the cold side piping. You can't see the BOV as it's on the back side of the piping.

And here is a close up of the BOV, will this be enough distance from the MAF/TB?

Thought of suck through meter ??

I don't understand, maybe I just asked a dumb question. I'm using

 

[XR8tt]

There are two places a MAF can go ..Between aircleaner and turbo [draw through] and anywhere after intercooler [blow through].. Usually atleast 8" straight pipe before so air is equal over maf...
The intake is more dense on blow through.. Depends how these air meters work ?? I have seen Supra meters used..
Tmk they are draw through ??