Chevy Rods

[turboandrew]

Guys, have you considered that all this machining may end not not saving any money in the long run? I don't know what it all costs, but it seems like it's a lot of work that you may not need. Also, aren't the 1st gen 1UZ rods quite strong already?

 

[TOBES]

Zuffen, an offset pin bush may be the softest option as it is not subject to a full 360 degree rotational force like a main or rod bearing, although the tension/compression forces are the same, and see less than 10 degrees. I just can't get my head around the idea of buying the strongest rods around and then weakening them by machining either end by 1.2mm to change the length. Grinding the big end cheeks is bad enough...

turboandrew, that is true but if you want to excede the capacity of the std rods then your only option currently is a custom set at $1,300 - 1,400.00US. At $400 - 500.00 a set for chev rods we can get a hell of a lot of work done for the remaining dough. (Convert that into $NZ!!!)

I was hoping to put the savings into that set of Jag liners on the shelf over there. The ones with the 87.75mm bore... or those others at 92mm... Hmmm, where's that piston catalogue??

 

[Zuffen]

I think at this point we're no further advanced.

I can't see the 350 rods working because you need to machine heaps out of them. At the end of the day they may end up weaker than the 1UZ rod we're starting with.

I think we need to keep searching.

Can you buy rod blanks? That is a forged rod without the journals machined into them? If we could get a set of 327 rod blanks things would be looking up.

 

[Zuffen]

I've been doing some searching and came across this address http://www.arrowprecision.co.uk/rod_enquiry.html and think it worth a try to see what they would charge for custom rods.

A group buy could work.

We need to ascertain the weight of the stock and Ross pistons.

Does anyone have a means of determining the weight?

I'm happy to fire off the questions to arrow as the rest of the questions don't look to hard to answer.

 

[autronic]

Guys:

I'm back, been a hectic weekend, anyway to muddle the waters further there exist Chevy SB 327 rod that's longer than
the stock 5.7".

There is a 5.85" rod with the small 2" bearing. It's possible to use it but then you have to machine off 2.7 mm from the
piston top as it will come that far above the deck of the block.

There is a way to reduce the 2.7 mm figure. The 5.85" rod is to long to be used as it is and 2.7 mm is to much to remove
from the piston top. the following modification I have seen done but I have never done it myself.

The rod centre to centre distance is reduced. The rod caps are removed and then material is removed from the rod.
On the picture I have marked where material is removed before the rod cap is bolted back and the machining to the 1UZFE
bearing can be done.

I think removing 1 mm should be ok, this leaves 1.7 mm to be removed from the piston tops, still a lot but better.

 

[autronic]

Zuffen:

About the offset bushes, it's possible to do but the bush can rotate. I have seen a Volvo B23 engine that ran this solution
and one of the pistons did not come to the top of the cylinder. I thought the engine had bent a rod but as it turned out
one of the bushes had cracked and rotated in the rod.

Machining the bush hole in the rod offset/bigger is not recomended. There is not enough "meat" in the small end to do this
so I'd not contemplate this.

I'm not worried about the strenght of the Chevy rods after the big end have been machined from the 2" bearing to the 1UZFE
bearing. I have to grab my camera to illustrated this but the 2" and the 2.1" Chevy rods are macined from the same blanks,
the difference is just how much material is removed.
The same with the width of the big end, you remove about 0.5 mm from each side and I don't see a problem with this.

If you grind the crankshaft to use the Chevy 2" rods, you still have to remove 0.5 mm from each side + you also have to
macine off the same from the Chevy bearings or they will be to wide to fit the crankshaft.

Finally, Arrows connecting rods. I'd love to get a set of 8 but they are expensive. I got a quote for a set of 4 to a
Cosworth engine for a friend of mine a couple of years back, they wanted £140 each. Even a set of Carrillo or Pauter custom
rods would be cheaper.

 

[Zuffen]

Autronic,

I had a feeling you'd mentioned Arrows before and that they weren't cheap.

I don't see a reasonable solution to the problem.

I suppose I should ask what are you doing about rods?

Looking at various Sites today it doesn't look too hard to have rods made but we would need to pull a group buy together.

Carillo, Crower & Eagle could all make rods from their blanks for other engines so it's only a matter of asking?

I may fire of a few emails and see what happens.

The way I see it my engine won't go anywhere until I sort out rods.

 

[autronic]

Zuffen:

For the engine going into the Sierra, will be around 600 flywheel horsepower, I will be using stock rods but they will
be modified. Better rod bolts, slight grinding/polishing and they should be ok. My only consern is overreving the
stock rods. From the top my mind I seem to recall that the Ross pistons is heavier that the stock ones, so I
think a rev limit between 7000 to 7500 rpm will be what I will use.

For later high hp engines I think modified "group buy" pistons, ( 1.1 mm taller compression height and Chevy SB pin ),
and Chevy SB 327 5.7" rods ( modified to take the 1UZFE big end bearing )
will be the way to go.

 

[turboandrew]

Anyone looked in to Eagle rods? It looks like a set of 4 cost as low as $320 USD. $640 for a set of 8 would not be that bad.

http://shopping.lightningmotorsports.com/catalog/Eagle_Connecting_Rod_2JZGTE_Toyota-p-588.html
http://shopping.lightningmotorsports.com/catalog/Eagle_Connecting_Rod_3SGTE_Toyota-p-587.html

According to this article Endyn rods are made by Eagle:
http://thenew.gamesbbs.com/~dmoore/project-twist.htm

I think the fact that Endyn is reselling them is a pretty good endorsement.

 

[Zuffen]

Turboandrew,

Have you checked if they will make rods to fir the 1UZ without modification or are you quoting prices for Honda parts that are a close(ish) fit?

 

[turboandrew]

I have not checked with them. I would hope if they have a quantity order, we could get a reasonable price. I'll check with them.

 

[skid]

Are we all barking up the wrong tree?

Are the rods really a weak point or are we getting carried away with change for changes sake???

Surely a good clean, balance and maybe a shot peen is all that is needed?

Also don't forget if you end up with huge great big thick rods you could end up clouting the side of the block at the bottom of the cylinder bore.

The rods are obviously thin for a reason. Let's face it Toyota have over engeneered everything and tolerances are tight so a trunk of a rod might cause more problems. I haven't had my 1UZ upside down and stripped so not sure of the clearances but if you have please have a look and let us know.

Cheers
Mark

 

[JDMfantasy]

For some, perhaps, but for others who do need the extra strength, or just peace of mind, then no, the stock rods are not enough.
As of now it looks like we'll be getting a set of 3D H-beams from eagle (5.7") and grinding the deck down. We'll be lowering comression to around 8.5, so we'll need some custom pistons anyway. We're building a twin throttle body intake manifold and a custom coolant bridge to allow more room for the intake, so both will be redone anyway as well. I'll keep everyone updated as to how it goes.

 

[skid]

For some, perhaps, but for others who do need the extra strength, or just peace of mind, then no, the stock rods are not enough.
As of now it looks like we'll be getting a set of 3D H-beams from eagle (5.7") and grinding the deck down. We'll be lowering comression to around 8.5, so we'll need some custom pistons anyway. We're building a twin throttle body intake manifold and a custom coolant bridge to allow more room for the intake, so both will be redone anyway as well. I'll keep everyone updated as to how it goes.

So how much hp are you going for to warrant the expense and work involved in new rods?

M

 

[Zuffen]

Perhaps we should ask all those people who have (personally) broken a rod due to increased horsepower rather than too many revs to tell us about it?

We all have opinions as to how strong or weak the rods are but is there a test you can do to see how strong they really are?

My bet is not a single person has broken a rod without over revving the engine.

Please put up your hand if you've broken a rod.

 

[Lextreme II]

Ok,

I am back from my mission and trying to clean things out. Stock are good but not great. If i didnt get those custom forged rods from TM Engineering as a Sponsored product, i would not pay for it. The weakest part of the 1uz are the pistons.......

Have you guys seen those NASCAR Carrillo Chevy Rods? Its little longer the our 1uz rods. NASCAR Carrillo rods are 6.2" length. They are very cheap on ebay. Its less than 100 on ebay... Do a search one ebay and type "carrillo chevy rods"

For the stock pistons, Ford 4.6 liter Mustang rods might work. Here are the specs:
Mustang 4.6
Length: 5.933"
Big End: 2.086"
Small End: .865"

Chevy
Length: 5.7"
Big End: 2.10"
Small End: .927"

Stock 1UZFE
Length: 5.746"
Big End: 2.165"
Small End: .864"

 

[lowboost]

Can we setup a Group buy for these as a machined finished product? This way someone that has a great machinest or someone who knows one can have a "lot" of these produced so they are minimal machine work required to make it a good upgrade for the uz guys!

Just a thought,
Jeff

 

[928s]

Hopefully this is your answer

I wasn't going to say anything about this issue, but I have decided to stick my head out and say what I believe would be the best solution to this stroker issue. BTW I'm in the process of doing exactly what I'm about to discuss.

I have a Porsche 928 it is a watercooled V8, I wanted to increase the capacity and not go the Fi route, strokers have been very successful in these cars with some producing 575 rwhp on a dynajet, that engine wasn't even run in. Believe it or not the Porsche crank also has 52 mm big end journals. The Porsche does have wider Journals than the Lexus.

I also try to keep up with currect technology, where do you look for that. Well Nascar is actually quite advanced in its own unique way. They use rods that are steel but very light and are also friction reducing. How does it reduce friction? Well it does it by decreasing bearing speed and the need for so much oil.

The size for the rods is 48 mm or 1.888" These are the Honda rods, you will be able to offset grind your crank and pick up close to 8 mm in stroke, so if you had a Tundra crank you would be able to go to 91.5 mm no worries. I say no worries but there is a fact that I'm not aware of at the moment. The thickness of the main journal. On the Porsche it is 70 mm and on the Chevy 400 it is about 67 mm. The thicker the better, the reason is more crank pin overlap. This means more strength.

Also when you do this you will cut down weight in the rotating and reciprocating assemblies. These rods BTW only weigh about 550 grams and will hold a Nascar piston safe at 9300 rpm for a 500 mile race. Nascar pistons must weigh atleast 400 grams. You WILL need custom pistons to do this properly. Mahle make the best pistons, forget about Ross, all of theirs are made from 2618a, this means sloppy piston to bore clearance, not what you want on a stroker. Also you will want a piston with a very high pin height or compression height. This will restore the rod to stroke ratio. This is important in a high revving engine. It will allow for lower peak piston speeds and lesser loads on the rod bolts. Remember that it is the G forces that break these things not the rpm. G forces will be much higher in a poor rod to stroke engine.

Also the Mahle piston when coated correctly will work with the MMC bores in the 3 uz. A standard piston will work in the 1uz, it has a grafal coating as standard. These Mahle pistons are friction reduced and light. They will weigh less than 400 grams, this means 9000 rpm is not a problem. Although 8000 rpm sounds more sensible to me.

Back to the rods,they are available on Ebay quite cheaply second hand. Also they are basically the right width. At 0.903 or 22.9362 this could easily be ground at the time of doing the offset grinding. So if your cranks mains are thick enough this would be your obvious solution, BTW you will gain 5 to 7 hp at 7000 rpm just because of the small journals. Here's a link to some ebay auctions, note there is many different rods with different specs, you will need to work out what the current comp height is of the existing pistons and go from there. You can get Mahles that have a 1.090" comp height. Note these rods are a small fortune new, some are $2800 USD. My set were $2500 USD new after one Dyno run I paid $250 USD, they are perfect.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lentz-Forged-Billet-NASCAR-Small-Block-Engine-Rods_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33623QQitemZ7988320852QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASCAR-LENTZ-CONNECTING-RODS-CHEVY-FORD-DODGE-carrillo_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33623QQitemZ7991868413QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


You could use the money save on the rods to buy the pistons, sorry about the bold I can't get rid of it.

In the end with larger pistons you could get a greater 5 liter engine that has very spec componants, perhaps better or as good as the racing TRDs. Who knows maybe that is what they have anyway.

Cheers Greg

 

[Lextreme II]

928,

Thanks for the wonderful information. I have been checking the same route as you mention for many weeks now. NASCAR used rods are cheap. However, the rod length are 6.0, 6.2 and 6.3" Would u think its too long?

 

[928s]

Hi Lex, you need to supply me the compression height of a standard piston. Without that info I can't say. Please get back to me and I will do the calculation.

Cheers Greg