Cams?

[Toysrme]

Personally... It's not like you guys are asking for some ungodly lift where you need an extra 40 thou on the shim, so it's pretty much a non issue for me.
Not the best example, but the best I can do is on my 3vz-fe, the stock adjusting shims range from 2.5mm - 3.3mm thick.

Depending on where my engine would fall needing a valve adjustment (Which it does). I could make up half, if not all the adjustment I would need just by the OEM shims.

 

[jibby]

:slaphappy Sounds good thanks for the input.....Now I am wondering if I will need to retard the timing abit at the increased higher rpm's with new cams and running nos. Also, Nos can get a little hairy if ran lean at higher rpm's.. I will figure it out, but the cams sound great to me!!!!!

 

[SCV8]

So, how much duration does the average Toyota cam gain when given a mild grind versus material removed ?

 

[Zuffen]

There are only 2 ways to increase duration on a standard cam.

1. Weld and grind. This will allow you to start opening the valve earlier.

2. Reduce the base circle dramatically to create the effect of a fatter lobe so you can grind as you want. You don't have to increase lift as you just gring the end of the lobe to the dimension you want. You will need all new shims.

 

[skid]

There are only 2 ways to increase duration on a standard cam.

1. Weld and grind. This will allow you to start opening the valve earlier.

2. Reduce the base circle dramatically to create the effect of a fatter lobe so you can grind as you want. You don't have to increase lift as you just gring the end of the lobe to the dimension you want. You will need all new shims.

Rod are one of these options the route that Kelford take.... or anyone else?

I need a FI super charger grind and don't really know how much material needs to be added or removed, and therfore whether to go Kelford, CSL or an option on the cams offered in this thread.

What do you all think?

Cheers
Mark

 

[SCV8]

Right, so I'm wondering how much duration @ .050 lift would be gained by removing a specified amount from the base circle, say .020, or so.
I have done this on other engines, and the cam never really performed because there wasn't any large gain in effective duration. What happened was that the seat to seat was a larger number, which created a vacum loss, and a loss of compression, yet the profile of the cam was basically the same as before.

 

[Toysrme]

SCV8, Who knows. Toyota uses cams from low 230's up through the 270's AFAIK. I doubt you can find an average for any maker.

AFA how much can be gained. What do you want to gain?
Most Re-worked Toyota cams go from in the 240's-250's* duration across I/E, and wind up in the 260's-upper 270's. Just for "mild" cams. Most of the time, you can add whatever you want. It's nothing more than a question of adding, or subtracting material.

If the guy can't grind what he needs, any cam builder is gonna weld it & grind it. IDK if that's more expencive after the fact. (Probably is b/c it's a hell of a lot more work.)
For that matter, my favorite preformance shop in town takes regrinds, and / or welded OCV/SOHC/DOHC through 328* with lifts in the .380-.55 range.

 

[jibby]

It is my understanding these stock cams are made out of one solid cast peice of hardened steel. Now what I am wondering is if on these weld and grind deals does the added material become hardened steel like the rest of the cam? I don't think so, I personally have never welded to hardened steel. Is the structual integrity of the cam comprimised when doing this and is there alot of premature lobe wear or breakage reported?

I would hate to pay a ton of money for a set of re-worked cams and experience failure, like shims falling off, or premature wearout.. What are your guys thoughts on this? I ask this because the few performance cams I have purchased in the past for Chevy's and Pontiac that I owned were not regrinds. I believe they were solid performance cams made from one cast iron block from what I remember and they were great....

 

[Toysrme]

Is the structual integrity of the cam comprimised when doing this

No. Surfaces are hard-surfaced by parkerizing, or nickel-welding.

is there alot of premature lobe wear or breakage reported?

Not when done by somebody paying attention that isn't a moron.


In this one engine re-grind cat I have for "Seldom used / obscure engines only seen in the likes of SCCA". They have a 3s-gte cam reground + shimmed that revs to 8600rpm, and a welded one that revs to 10,000rpm.

That's a lot of rpm with boost tehehehe.
^ And that's a pretty well known SCCA engine builder doing re-grinds. They seem not to fear modified cams VS billet cams.
Tho like anyone... If you wanna shell the money for a big billet of steel for them to turn, hell they're happy to talk all the money u wanna give'em!



Obviously billet cams, shimless buckets are the best thing next to... Well pneumatic valves, but regrinds/welds are not new. They've been used for as long as custom cams have been. Are they as good in evey way... mmmm no. Do they achive the same thing? Normally, Yes.

 

[Zuffen]

Kelford has new cam blanks cast.

I believe Tighe Cams in Australia has access to the same blanks. Tighe can also weld and grind.

Cams are made from cast iron as it is porous. This allows the cam to absorb oil and becomes to an extent self lubricating. This reduces lobe wear.

Welding will not give the same surface as a cast blank.

At the end of the day you pay your money and take your chances.

I purchased new Kelford cams for no more than it would cost to weld and grind 4 cams and I know they will last.

You guys in the States can get Kelford cams for little more than $1,000.00 which I think is good buying.

 

[jibby]

Add 30% for shipping over seas.....ouch

 

[WeasyS2S]

I dont get why people keep saying that when using regrinds you have to DRAMATICALY take material away....

for me to go from 217 (advertised) to 262 took away 15 thou...thats nothing dramatic

In my test engine i have a spacer installed vs getting larger shims and have been testing this for over 2000km already.

I have ordered some sample 1uz valve train compoents and will be seeing what i can do as far as shim under bucket or shimless buckets can go as lots of toyota parts anre interchangable.

 

[WeasyS2S]

I would also like to add that toyota does use a hardner on the cams at a certain layer. The cam grinder i use avoids going through that layer to help keep original life out of the cams. Of course this limits the amount that can be grounded off but for people who want similar to OEM life

Of course people who want radical cam's can still have something close as i can also get a cam profile made and re hardened.

As far as shims go, i will be purchasing a lot of them from toyota at a discounted rate at which point will be selling them at cost for people who purchase my cams in the future.

 

[Zuffen]

Jibby,

The airfreight on my cams was less than 10% of the purchase price. I think 30% will only happen when they have a seat booked for them in First Class.

 

[jibby]

I thought I read $300 USD for shipping (4 cams) maybe I was mistaken.

 

[cowboy bebop]

$1,800.00 nzd = 1,221.00 usd + 300 shipping= 1,521.00 usd. Still not bad for 4 cams.

Eric

 

[jibby]

Thanks Cowboy, I was right after all and I don't need glasses for eye sight or ginsing for memory enhancement. I was starting to worry there for a minute.

So anyway the shipping costs is the deal breaker for me. I'll take my chances on the cheaper reworked cams with the flying shims and buckets and soon to be worn out lobes for $750... 40hp for $1500 = broke, 40hp for $750 = doable... I am done clowning around....see you guys..

 

[WeasyS2S]

Dont forget you dont have to pay for duty and taxes with regrinds as they are warrenty repair items

Plus who says the shims will fly out
Maybe look into getting shimless buckets because it is 33% lighter then standard buckets which helps at higher RPMS.