Are we ready for 5.0 1UZFE?

[Lextreme II]

My engine builder is resleeving the standard 1uzfe and putting in a stroker crank for some testing. I wonder if this community is ready for more cubic. 5.0 liter, 6 bolt main and so on would be very attracting. However, rev will be little lower then the stock since the stroke will be greater now.

 

[jibbby]

Those cylinder walls must be getting pretty thin on the 1UZ-F...no? I love the idea, bigger is better.....

What will a one liter size bigger motor NA bring you in the way of approx. horsepower gains? We know the stock 4.0L 1uz..averages 220rwhp on a good day....What will a 5.0L bring? I am thinking a 20% increase in power on average considering the same type internals are used on both blocks.

 

[Lextreme II]

We are thinking using the light weight I-Beam (550 grams instead of 650 grams and its good for 500 hp) with possible slightly high compression.

 

[Zuffen]

Do you think the heads can flow enough air for the conversion to really work?

 

[KazeSupra]

Very interested only if FI is an option. I would say with proper sleeves, it would be doable. Most of the Darton LS1 sleeves work with FI, even with very wide bores and thin walls, because of the ductile iron that is used. If it's something similar, I'm in.

 

[Lextreme II]

Zuffen,

That is a great question and we are working on this issue too. Possible cams and over size valves along with good headers might do the job. The sleeves we are using are stronger then stock. FI is not a problem at all. We are also going to make the sleeve sits a little higher then the block so when the heads sit on it, it also acts as a O-ring.

 

[KazeSupra]

SWEET! Prices and pics please, once available.

*EDIT* BTW, this is making it real hard for me...4.0L & TT & 9000rpm, or 5.0L & TT & 6000rpm...decisions, decisions...

 

[cowboy bebop]

We are also going to make the sleeve sits a little higher then the block so when the heads sit on it, it also acts as a O-ring.

That's an interesting way of approaching it, but my question would be how would you ensure a seal at the head gasket?

Eric

 

[Zuffen]

I see the same seal problem with raised sleeves.

I know Renault used to set their liners/sleaves up about 15thou above deck height but they had a fibre seal under the loose liner/sleave (it was a wet liner) that would crush when the head was torqued down.

You couldn't have more than a couple of thou over the deck or the gasket wouldn't seal.

 

[cowboy bebop]

Literally a couple of thousandths, and the motor will weep coolant and oil from down the sides. Ask me how I know this...I had all 6 cylinders weeping coolant, oil and fuel down both sides of my block for months because my gasket wasn't properly seated.

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

Literally a couple of thousandths, and the motor will weep coolant and oil from down the sides. Ask me how I know this...I had all 6 cylinders weeping coolant, oil and fuel down both sides of my block for months because my gasket wasn't properly seated. Eric

The raised sleeve act like an O-Ring. Do some research on O-Ring block on the net. I guess its time for your to change your engine builder. Proper O-ring the block should not have any sealing problem.

 

[cowboy bebop]

Maybe your engine builder should research what it actually means to O-ring a block.

http://www.300below.com/site/rodsperformance.html

" O-ringing requires cutting a receiver groove in the block deck around the perimeter of each bore. The depth of the groove is critical since it will be required to hold a soft copper wire. The wire needs to lie in the groove, with a certain portion extending above the deck surface. When the cylinder head is installed with the head gasket, an increase in clamping force is experienced around the combustion chamber due to installation of the wire."

"The ring would drop into steps at the top of the cylinder bores and stand higher than the head gasket surface of the block. When the head was torqued, the gasket and seal were compressed, making for a leak-proof installation."


Nowhere in there does it mention raising a ductile iron sleeve above the deck so that it may be used as an O-ring. Just the opposite in fact.

Eric

 

[turboandrew]

In the age of MLS gaskets I don't see any reason why one would ever want to do anything remotely related to o-rings for combustion chambers. There are engines out there running 250 HP per cylinder on MLS gaskets, why would we need anything else?

 

[JDMfantasy]

I been talking with Kyle from Darton, and there is no off the shelf MID/wet sleeve offered that we could use for the 1UZ. It would have to be machined specifically for our motor. I've been wanting a 95mm bore, which would raise displacement to 4.68 liters, and still keep the short stroke for high rpm. To R&D and machine a set of one off sleeves for the 1UZ would cost $4-5,000, unless there is a demand for more sets. That was a low blow when I heard that:-(. I guess we'll just have to save up or some up with something else. I don't want to lose my revs though....

 

[Lextreme II]

The ultimate decision would be buyer's choice. We have the ability offer them any combination. I really have been thinking about this 5.0 DOHC 6 bolt main with or without FI.

 

[JDMfantasy]

Dave, what will you're bore be increased to? What of sort of sleeves are you running?

 

[cowboy bebop]

It's really not a bad idea. 5 liter 1uz would be pretty dirty. The trick will be to hardweld the crank properly, if you don't go with a new billet custom crank.

Eric

 

[cribbj]

I'd think a 5.0 litre 1UZ crate motor that could come out of the box already broken in, with a 350 BHP dyno sheet would turn the heads of many people in the mainstream that would normally buy a SBC or SBF crate motor for a project. At the end of the day, who really wants a 21st century supercar with modern technology throughout, but powered by a 50 year old SBC? OK, Vette owners, but those guys just aren't evolving fast enough....

It would be even more attractive if it were available either in NA or FI trim, with "reasonable" quality internals that'll survive up to 7500, and a simple EMS that doesn't require a rocket scientist to setup. Don't put in the "best" of everything because people couldn't afford it, but put middle of the road stuff in, and concentrate on making it all work well together while keeping it affordable.

Certainly Ford would have a tougher time selling their 4.6L Cammer for $15,000 if a smaller, lighter, better engineered 5.0l DOHC motor were available. That 4.6l motor is a monstrosity compared to the 1UZ.

Build it and they will come, especially if the price tag can be kept somewhere south of 10K USD.

 

[turboandrew]

If you want big displacement, I think the best approach is to probably wait fot the next Tundra (2007?) and jump on that motor. With any luck, Toyota will still use the same basic layout as the 1/2/3UZ motors and parts will be interchangable. A factory designed 5.7l, add forged internals, different cams, headers, etc should net over 400 HP very easily. Honestly I think 500 HP is within reach with the right cams and tuning.

But for now, I am happy to attempt to squeeze and ram air in to a 4.0l with a twin screw and shoot for a conservative 700 HP!