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Supercharged Supra

JustenGT8

New Member
Yeah option 2 definitely!! You engineering analness would surely demand this John? ;)

This setup is going to make one hell of a sound...it'll be like nothing else on the road :)
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Yeah option 2 definitely!! You engineering analness would surely demand this John? ;)

This setup is going to make one hell of a sound...it'll be like nothing else on the road :)
Yea, I don't know what came over me there, thinking of taking a shortcut at this point. Must have been a moment of normality, which I don't often have :).
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
OK, hydro fan bracket idler pulley is done (not CNC quality, but decent hand machining by a local machine shop) and the whole front drive system is now finished.

No more excuses now - I HAVE to get this freaking harness done. Being a EE, you'd think it would have been the first thing finished, but I seem to prefer playing with mechanical stuff over electrical.

2nd photo is the sketch with dimensions of the as-built pulley if anyone needs to build another. It fits like a glove onto the hydro fan bracket.

p.s. Justen take note - the hood is DOWN on the Fcar (I've actually been driving it lately:))
 

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JustenGT8

New Member
Good to hear the Fezza is still running John :) won't be for long so enjoy it eh ;)

UZ looks awesome mate so get that loom sorted. Mine is up on blocks waiting for the new suspension that was promised pre Xmass :( It had better arrive before the track season starts!
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
are all those alloy pulleys hard anodized?
Nope, and I sure wish they were.

Good to hear the Fezza is still running John :) won't be for long so enjoy it eh ;)

UZ looks awesome mate so get that loom sorted. Mine is up on blocks waiting for the new suspension that was promised pre Xmass :( It had better arrive before the track season starts!
Heh, I've learned the Fcar is definitely a fair weather beast (and COOL fair weather at that), and the rest of the Italian engineering on it leaves a lot to be desired. Ferrari would do themselves a huge favor if they'd stick to designing engines, and then turn their designs, and the rest of the car over to the Japanese to build. My '94 and '97 Supras, which came from the same era as this car, are head & shoulders above it in production engineering, and build quality.

It's been rumored that VW Group have been sniffing around Fiat to see if Ferrari are for sale, and that could be a brilliant move for Ferrari. The purists would scream bloody murder, but it would improve the quality of the marque immeasurably if a major European (or better yet, Japanese) OEM would buy them, and leave the basic DNA alone, but improve the execution & QA/QC of the cars. Same process that Jaguar went through years ago with Ford, as well as more recently, Lamborghini with Audi. Probably the only reason those two marques are still in business (and are 10x better for it, too), although Jaguar are now owned by an Indian venture capital company, which doesn't bode well for improving that DNA.

For those of us who grew up in the 50's & 60's watching the red cars from Maranello battling it out in F1, Le Mans and the sports car circuits, Ferrari's have always been special, but that romance doesn't exist with younger folk.

In this 21st century, I don't think Ferrari will be able to continue to charge exorbitant prices for poorly built exotic cars, based on their mystique, glorious reputation and previous racing accomplishments. There are just too many better built alternatives now.
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Nice John, Good to see someone is working on their 1uz! I really got to get back to mine, soon I hope.
Great to see you back Scott! We all have our hurdles on these projects, and sometimes (most of the time with me) they're perceived to be bigger than they really are. The one hurdle I haven't managed to overcome, no matter what I do, is sheer laziness :)
 

scotturnot

Member
Hey John,
Seems like you sent me a mail way back about cams, I was so busy at work I forgot to go back to it, now I cant locate it. You still need info? Let me know. I am either tearing into this motor or loading it up to bring to TX. This is the year my car must run.
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Well, nothing has happened for quite some time due to lack of resources and motivation. The redheaded Italian mistress has been taking all the former and leaving me none of the latter.

Then just the other day Scotturnot contacted me about teaming up to finish both our projects at the same time and dyno them back to back, and it may just be the motivating factor that we both need to get things back on track. So this project and thread may be coming alive again soon.

Couple things I'm changing to get the engine on the dyno:

1. I've scrapped my original harness concept with all the exposed leads encased in silicone tubing and the double conduits on the manifold. It really was turning out quite ugly rather than purposeful, which had been my original intent. I'm now going to go for a minimal approach and appearance, and will try for a better balance of form as well as function, which is something I've learned from the Ferrari side. The way the old harness was turning out was probably the single largest factor that demotivated me. It really was a disappointment, so everyone feel free to jump in and tell me you told me so!

2. In order to get the engine dynoed, I'm not going to wait until a new harness is designed, built & installed. Rather, I'll just reuse my old temporary dyno harness, which has served me well for 3 dyno runs in the past and should get us past this last important milestone. Then, following the dyno session (assuming the engine survives and makes the power that I expect), I'll then transport the engine to my harness builder and he'll build a bespoke harness for it while it's sitting there in his shop.

3. I'm also going to change the COP's from the Tundra coils, with their tops exposed and poking out the cam covers, along with the exposed wiring, to bike coils, which will be hidden under the cam covers, with concealed wiring as well.

4. I may also return to the original stubby injectors (Siemens Deka's @ 44mm long) that I'd planned to use, in lieu of the longer Deka's @ 75mm which I needed in order to avoid the fuel rails fouling those big electrical conduits. With a more conventional and smaller flexible harness setup on top, it'll now fit around other obstacles, instead of vice versa. Again, I want to try to keep things tucked away and not so visible, if possible.


The cogged drive for the supercharger & all the accessories will remain - I think it's one of the highlights of this setup, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it runs.

The only technical issue at the moment is the packaging of the two boost control solenoids and their plumbing in a visually pleasing manner. As some may recall, I'm using a dual port actuator on my supercharger bypass valve, so with the right input from the ECU it can either be used as a conventional bypass valve, or as a boost controller. I'd prefer to test this on the dyno under controlled conditions, however it's not critical to getting the overall engine on/off the dyno, so I may defer it.

So that's the long winded version of what's happened :)
 

JustenGT8

New Member
Great to hear John. Shall we place bets on whose is running 1st for extra motivation? :)

A coupla questions. What power are you hoping for?

And these bike CoPs? Which ones? I have some CBR400 CDI coils that I want to run along with my Autronic 500r CDI box....I'm bit worried about burning out coils repeatedly though, I have zero patience for that kind of thing and like stuff to be over engineered almost to the point of failure proof ;)
 
Tefzel wire and DTM plugs are your friends! you can run much smaller gauge tefzel for the same current rating as "normal" wire makes it lighter and easy to hide!

I found 1NZ (from memory) coils are a nice fit with a skim off the outside, i'll post pics and part numbers when I get them finished
 

scotturnot

Member
Well, nothing has happened for quite some time due to lack of resources and motivation. The redheaded Italian mistress has been taking all the former and leaving me none of the latter.

Then just the other day Scotturnot contacted me about teaming up to finish both our projects at the same time and dyno them back to back, and it may just be the motivating factor that we both need to get things back on track. So this project and thread may be coming alive again soon.

John,
I am hopful this will give us both the needed motivation to finish these builds up, Its been way to long for both of us. Cant blame you for getting sidetracked on that Italian beauty!

Great to hear John. Shall we place bets on whose is running 1st for extra motivation? :)
Sounds like a plan, there are two kinds of running though, Are we talking on the engine dyno or driving down the road?
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Tefzel wire and DTM plugs are your friends! you can run much smaller gauge tefzel for the same current rating as "normal" wire makes it lighter and easy to hide!

I found 1NZ (from memory) coils are a nice fit with a skim off the outside, i'll post pics and part numbers when I get them finished
For the Ferrari ignition harnesses we've been building for the COP conversion kits, I've been using motorsport/milspec wiring, generically known as Raychem Type 55 (milspec M22759/44-16-0 which is a silver plated conductor with Teflon insulation, good for 200 degC) and it is encased in high temp fiberglass sleeving/sheathing, good for 600 degC. All connectors have motorsport grade heat shrink covering, which will also cover the transitions from the sleeving to the connectors, so there is no exposed wiring. I designed and specified the type of harness construction, but I subcontract out the actual construction to a gentleman who does this type of work for a living, and does it far better than I can. I'd intended to do the new "permanent" harness for the 1UZ this way.

The DTM connectors are a good idea - I've been searching for some smaller quarter turn connectors as I envision needing 3-4 subharnesses on the engine, but I may just turn to the DTM's.

Great to hear John. Shall we place bets on whose is running 1st for extra motivation? :)

A coupla questions. What power are you hoping for?

And these bike CoPs? Which ones? I have some CBR400 CDI coils that I want to run along with my Autronic 500r CDI box....I'm bit worried about burning out coils repeatedly though, I have zero patience for that kind of thing and like stuff to be over engineered almost to the point of failure proof ;)
Justen, I'm guessing it'll be a pretty even race with Scott & me as far as motivation 'cause we're both sick & tired of not getting these projects finished, but in fairness to Scott, his engine will need a lot more engine builder attention than mine does, so that'll slow him down a bit.

Power - well, I'm planning to have enough injection (@ 85% duty) to support 750 BHP total at the crank, but at least 40-50 of that will be taken by the supercharger. I'd be over the moon to see 700 at the flywheel to the dyno.

On the COP's yea, they'll be the Honda/Suzuki style pencil coils. I was planning on keeping the system inductive, but CDI is still a possibility if it seems an inductive + an HKS Twin Power DLI box isn't cutting it.
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
John,
Sounds like a plan, there are two kinds of running though, Are we talking on the engine dyno or driving down the road?
Hehe, I'm guessing I'll be ready for the dyno before you, but you'll be driving your car before me :)
 

JustenGT8

New Member
Thanks John,
Having discovered the 2.6L twin screw is no good for a twincharge setup i am toying with the idea of running just it alone...if it'll give me over 400rwkw, reliably.

I have the pencil coils and some minor mods needed to fit them. They dont look much though? As in so small how much punch can they put out? I am also looking at the mercury marine coils as one of the biggest sparks out there non CDI and tough as nails.
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Jeez Justen, you know better than I do that any supercharger over 50% of the engine displacement is overkill, AND you were compounding it with that Caterpillar sized turbo? I'm surprised your engine didn't grenade while it was cranking :)

Those pencil coils are tough little buggers as long as you don't overdwell them. I've had excellent luck with them on the Ferrari's, but that's an NA application making only about 85 HP/Liter. I'll be asking them to support more than twice that on the Lexus, so it could be touch & go.

Like you, I'd certainly prefer a stouter coil with more copper for the added "insurance", but it would violate my new packaging philosophy (less is more), so I'm hoping I can get away with the bike coils for at least one dyno session. They're cheap enough that I can replace the whole set for about what a single IGN-1A Mercury coil costs.

Not criticising your choice, (as you know I'm using the IGN-1A's on the V12 beemer motor also), and they're real performers, but they're about as ugly as they come and don't package well at all.

I "may" do a last minute switch and use the Chrysler 300 coils just for the dyno session, and revert to the pencil coils for everyday use. The Chrysler coils are very stout, but all their copper is up on top, so they're a bit difficult to package too. I'm hoping to use a set of Sudsy's swank looking inserts on my cam covers, and it would be a real challenge for him to make a set to fit over the Chrysler coils. Too, I'd like to keep my options open on CDI, and I know the bike coils will run fine either with an inductive or a CDI setup, while IIRC, I think the Chryslers are too high an impedance to work with CDI.
 
You are not the only one who want to see their project finally done. I am happy to say I am in the same boat. After being in hiatus for 5 years, my project is also active again. My goal is to have it running and driving by the end of the year. Who knows, maybe we should have a meet and greet when we are all done.

I did have some inspiration recently. I was at the Mercedes Benz museum in Stuttgrat (awesome place) and I came across this:
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12774&d=1371002236

That was the point at which I realized I need to get off my ass and finish

Here's a little teaser of the current progress:
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12775&d=1371002320
 

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