KazeSupra
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- Dayton, OH, USA
Sweet. Can't go wrong with that.
5.8 Liter 500 bhp Lexus (N/A)?
- Thread starter Lextreme II
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Eric
My $ .02.
You could build with Stock Crank ( lighten ever so sligthly, Knife edged, and other minor crank work.
Use Max Overbore that stock sleeves would take Custom pistons (JE, Aries or someone).
Have a stroked Rod ligther than stock.( Carillo or someone )
Have Full Stage III port to head and Valves. Flow benched.
Figure on a Perfect Cam grind ( X 4 ) for this motor. Use stronger Valve springs and retainers. To spin up to say 7500-8000 rpms. ( it's a 32 valve motor ! )
Have the stock throttle body enlarged a few mm. Delete the MAF using a piggybank ECU ( yes both can be done )
A master engine builder carefully Balancing/Blueprinting the assembly carefully, on tolorences, like cam specs, piston squish/Deck height, CC Heads, Head /Valve CFM, I'm guessing could get in the 450 HP + range or more. Car Craft show motors like this in the SB V8 range all the time.
Until someone actually builds a true 8K rpm street motor no one has met the potential that these engines have to offer in 4 litre form. These motors should easily make 450 in street trim. If you can't make 650+ from a 5.8 litre motor then add boost.
For most of the street car guys, boost is the way to go. Keep the low end torque to move the heavy car off the line.
i think a more viable alternative would be to bore and stroke the motor out to only 5L and rework(or totally redesign) the heads to supply more air to the cylinders, and redisign the block for DFI(Direct Fuel Injection). youll get much better flow in the heads due to the fact that there is no fuel mixed in the intake charge prior to it entering the cylinder, and you will get better distribution of fuel because DFI systems have massive amounts of pressure in the them(the more the better). using pure Ethanol with that combo would be the best, but thats not very easy to get ahold of(i think).
KazeSupra
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Anaema, I look forward to what you have to say. I definitely wouldn't mind a 5.0L block...6.0L would be cooler.
I would love to get some heads made for this engine. Something much more aggressive. I was talking to a friend of mine that send a block of wood out to a metal company, got a block of iron in return, and then bored out his own cylinder head. I'm tempted...
I would love to get some heads made for this engine. Something much more aggressive. I was talking to a friend of mine that send a block of wood out to a metal company, got a block of iron in return, and then bored out his own cylinder head. I'm tempted...
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C
cowboy bebop
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I'm most sure that it's not more viable, but I suppose it's possible. I wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel, I just would want to make it roll better.Anaema said:
Eric
jgscott
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- Atlanta GA
I was kinda thinking the same thing, sorta.Anaema said:
My $ .02.
You could build with Stock Crank ( lighten ever so sligthly, Knife edged, and other minor crank work.
Use Max Overbore that stock sleeves would take Custom pistons (JE, Aries or someone).
Have a stroked Rod ligther than stock.( Carillo or someone )
Have Full Stage III port to head and Valves. Flow benched.
Figure on a Perfect Cam grind ( X 4 ) for this motor. Use stronger Valve springs and retainers. To spin up to say 7500-8000 rpms. ( it's a 32 valve motor ! )
Have the stock throttle body enlarged a few mm. Delete the MAF using a piggybank ECU ( yes both can be done )
A master engine builder carefully Balancing/Blueprinting the assembly carefully, on tolorences, like cam specs, piston squish/Deck height, CC Heads, Head /Valve CFM, I'm guessing could get in the 450 HP + range or more. Car Craft show motors like this in the SB V8 range all the time.
rarson
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- Manchester, CT
Kind of late to this conversation...
There's a company named LA Sleeve that makes progressive auto sleeves in a huge number of sizes. You could probably sleeve it to 95+ mm and still have a fairly thick wall sleeve. I've looked into both wet and dry sleeves and wet sleeves don't seem to be worth the trouble.
Now as best as I remember, the 1UZ uses 147mm rods with 52mm rod journal and 32mm compression height. Grinding the rod journal down to the "Honda size" 48mm opens up a LOT of rod possibilities (it's the now-common size in Nascar engines, not to mention the Honda H, F, and K series engines) and allows for the possibility of 4mm extra stroke. Or, you could take it a step further and go to a 45mm journal, same as the 4g63 (and most Honda D and B series engines) for a possibility of an extra 7mm of stroke. The 32mm compression height gives us a little room to play around with the pin by moving it up a few mm.
If it were me, and in fact, if I ever finally get a 1UZ this will be the course of action, I'd grind the rod journals down to 45mm, use two sets of stock 4g63 rods, and move the wrist pin up 5mm to utilize an 86.5mm stroke. While I haven't looked deeply into the sleeving bit yet, a 95mm bore and 86.5mm stroke will give 4.9L (and a set of 4 sleeves is less than $400, so I'm assuming a set of 8 would be less than $800). This would be an extremely rev-happy, 10k rpm potential engine though, so there'd be a lot required on the head to really utilize the max potential of the engine.
Or, for someone looking for max stroke using that same basic simply setup, 89.5mm stroke would be possible moving the pin up 6.5mm (still possible, I believe). With the same 95mm bore, you'd get a slightly less rev-happy 5.1L.
Of course, the benefits of doing it this way are utilizing the stock crank (cheap) and
utilizing stock 4g63 rods (cheap AND strong, not very heavy either). And you'd get a good R/S ratio and still maintain decently low piston speeds for high rpm. Even with the stock sleeves, which I believe could support an 88.5mm bore, 4.4L would be possible.
I beleive something like a max of 97-98mm bore is possible, so we're potentially looking at 5.4L, for a relatively "budget" setup. The nice thing about going to a larger bore is unshrouding the valves, and also the chance to work the combustion chamber a little bit and add quench to the pistons. The stock 1UZ pistons aren't exactly optimal for natural aspiration.
If you want to look at some interesting piston designs, check out this page. Larry sometimes catches flack for his controversial ideas, but then again, it wouldn't be interesting if it wasn't controversial. Personally, I think everything he explains pretty much makes sense and I'm looking forward to utilizing a design very similar to his in my next engine. I'm sure he can custom make a set for just about any application, too.
Also check out his head work for some pictures of some really NICE porting.
There's a company named LA Sleeve that makes progressive auto sleeves in a huge number of sizes. You could probably sleeve it to 95+ mm and still have a fairly thick wall sleeve. I've looked into both wet and dry sleeves and wet sleeves don't seem to be worth the trouble.
Now as best as I remember, the 1UZ uses 147mm rods with 52mm rod journal and 32mm compression height. Grinding the rod journal down to the "Honda size" 48mm opens up a LOT of rod possibilities (it's the now-common size in Nascar engines, not to mention the Honda H, F, and K series engines) and allows for the possibility of 4mm extra stroke. Or, you could take it a step further and go to a 45mm journal, same as the 4g63 (and most Honda D and B series engines) for a possibility of an extra 7mm of stroke. The 32mm compression height gives us a little room to play around with the pin by moving it up a few mm.
If it were me, and in fact, if I ever finally get a 1UZ this will be the course of action, I'd grind the rod journals down to 45mm, use two sets of stock 4g63 rods, and move the wrist pin up 5mm to utilize an 86.5mm stroke. While I haven't looked deeply into the sleeving bit yet, a 95mm bore and 86.5mm stroke will give 4.9L (and a set of 4 sleeves is less than $400, so I'm assuming a set of 8 would be less than $800). This would be an extremely rev-happy, 10k rpm potential engine though, so there'd be a lot required on the head to really utilize the max potential of the engine.
Or, for someone looking for max stroke using that same basic simply setup, 89.5mm stroke would be possible moving the pin up 6.5mm (still possible, I believe). With the same 95mm bore, you'd get a slightly less rev-happy 5.1L.
Of course, the benefits of doing it this way are utilizing the stock crank (cheap) and
utilizing stock 4g63 rods (cheap AND strong, not very heavy either). And you'd get a good R/S ratio and still maintain decently low piston speeds for high rpm. Even with the stock sleeves, which I believe could support an 88.5mm bore, 4.4L would be possible.
I beleive something like a max of 97-98mm bore is possible, so we're potentially looking at 5.4L, for a relatively "budget" setup. The nice thing about going to a larger bore is unshrouding the valves, and also the chance to work the combustion chamber a little bit and add quench to the pistons. The stock 1UZ pistons aren't exactly optimal for natural aspiration.
If you want to look at some interesting piston designs, check out this page. Larry sometimes catches flack for his controversial ideas, but then again, it wouldn't be interesting if it wasn't controversial. Personally, I think everything he explains pretty much makes sense and I'm looking forward to utilizing a design very similar to his in my next engine. I'm sure he can custom make a set for just about any application, too.
Also check out his head work for some pictures of some really NICE porting.
C
cowboy bebop
Guest
What's wrong with the 2uz-fe port design? Compare a STOCK 2uz-fe intake port....
VS. a PORTED 2jz intake port...
Eric
VS. a PORTED 2jz intake port...
Eric
lowboost
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is there a way to port a 1uz/2uz head in the same manor as a 2jz head?
Edit, by the way that guys thumb is huge
Edit, by the way that guys thumb is huge
C
cowboy bebop
Guest
Yeah that guy has quite a meathook there. : ). You can port out the 1uz head to a point it appears, but the port design was meant mroe for fuel economy that for performance. On the other hand, the 2uz ports are very similar in appearance to the 2jz ports.
FWIW, I know the 2uz-fe's that are making 650rwhp N/A are doing it with stock 2uz ports. The ports seem to flow very well, and don't suffer the same angled offset issues that that plagues the 2jz-gte. I personally feel that if you're in the pursuit of HP, the 2uz heads are the way to go.
Eric
FWIW, I know the 2uz-fe's that are making 650rwhp N/A are doing it with stock 2uz ports. The ports seem to flow very well, and don't suffer the same angled offset issues that that plagues the 2jz-gte. I personally feel that if you're in the pursuit of HP, the 2uz heads are the way to go.
Eric
lowboost
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how is a 2uz making 650whp NA? with that much power what is done on the motor?
C
cowboy bebop
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It's a race application, 3.850" stroke, 5.65L, aggressive cams, 8.5:1 compression, 6000rpm redline. But all on stock 2uz-fe ports.
Eric
Eric
rarson
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Guys, this is good info. I didn't know that the 2UZ heads were that much different from the 1UZ heads. Thanks.
It seems to me that the 2JZ ports are nothing to be screaming about. Yes, they work well in their application but they are also designed for compactness (read what Larry has to say about them). I can't imagine that the 2JZ would be the ports to mimic. They very well may be the best ports to start out with, but I have to believe that there will always be room for improvement.
Anyway, isn't there a chance we can work the 1UZ heads to match or exceed the 2UZ or 2JZ ports? I mean, unless there's major water lines running nearby or the ports are already "hogged out" way too big, we should be able to remove material as necessary. Then, there's also always my favorite secret weapon, Devcon aluminum. I'm actually looking into reshaping a Honda port using Devcon (basically just moving the injectors upstream, and getting rid of the "cutouts" in the head and IM from the old injector spots).
I'd like to stick with the 1UZ block for cost and weight. In that respect, utilizing the stock 1UZ heads (rather than swapping 2UZ heads) would also be preferrable.
I love this board, always good conversations going on...
It seems to me that the 2JZ ports are nothing to be screaming about. Yes, they work well in their application but they are also designed for compactness (read what Larry has to say about them). I can't imagine that the 2JZ would be the ports to mimic. They very well may be the best ports to start out with, but I have to believe that there will always be room for improvement.
Anyway, isn't there a chance we can work the 1UZ heads to match or exceed the 2UZ or 2JZ ports? I mean, unless there's major water lines running nearby or the ports are already "hogged out" way too big, we should be able to remove material as necessary. Then, there's also always my favorite secret weapon, Devcon aluminum. I'm actually looking into reshaping a Honda port using Devcon (basically just moving the injectors upstream, and getting rid of the "cutouts" in the head and IM from the old injector spots).
I'd like to stick with the 1UZ block for cost and weight. In that respect, utilizing the stock 1UZ heads (rather than swapping 2UZ heads) would also be preferrable.
I love this board, always good conversations going on...
rarson
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- Manchester, CT
One more question, I'm assuming Kelford can pretty much grind any profile right? Or are they limited to "shelf" applications?
turboteener
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Please don't. DO it right and weld the head up and re-port and machine the heads the way you want.
Until someone actually builds a true 8K rpm street motor no one has met the potential that these engines have to offer in 4 litre form. These motors should easily make 450 in street trim. If you can't make 650+ from a 5.8 litre motor then add boost.
For most of the street car guys, boost is the way to go. Keep the low end torque to move the heavy car off the line.
rarson
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- Manchester, CT
I'm sorry, I don't see what you mean. Devcon is basically the equivalent of welding up the head...turboteener said:
turboteener
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Devcon is an epoxy, it is no where near the equivalent as phsycally melting new aluminum into the parent material. In order to reshape the ports enough with Devcon you would have to dam the port up and pour in the Devcon, then you have to deal with it not drying evenly and shrinkage. You are better of using Moroso 2-part epoxy. It will work for awhile. It is by no means the permanent solution that welding new material is.
lowboost
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who runs 8:5.1 compression on an NA?
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