lowboost
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light internals do help, but also they rev down just as fast as they rev up, so remember that when granny shifting.
5.8 Liter 500 bhp Lexus (N/A)?
- Thread starter Lextreme II
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
What about cryo-treating the block? I was reading somewhere that just cryo-treating the block can extend your engine life by 100% (meaning that engines live twice as long as non cryo-treated blocks). So to give that extra strength, get the engine prepped to where it's ready to be assembled, cryo-treat the block, and boost it? Any ideas/experience?
Well, that's a step in the right direction. 26mm is still 6mm we could use for something else, like extra rod length or extra stroke.
For instance if we use my earlier example with new numbers:
223.49mm (8.799") Deck Height (still verifying)
146mm (5.748") Rod Length
88.9mm (3.500") Stroke
26mm (1.023") Piston Compression Height
223.49 - 146 - 44.45 - 26 = 7.04mm of clearance
146/88.9 = 1.64 r/s ratio
Now we have a few more mm left to play with. Let's say we increase the rod length to 151 (5.945") and the stroke to 92mm (3.622").
223.49 - 151 - 46 - 26 = .49mm clearance
151/92 = 1.64 r/s ratio
Again, this is not including the headgasket clearance or the squish volume. This is just clearance to the top of the deck, if the deck is as high as I posted above.
FYI, 4" bore + 92mm Stroke = 5.96L...
Ninja Edit...I wonder how hard it is to make a deck spacer...I would just need 15mm...165mm Rod = 1.8 r/s ratio = 8000rpm 6.0L...mmmm...
C
cowboy bebop
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You've got to keep that foot on the loud pedal at least some when you run light internals. Not planted of course, unless you're running all out, but enough to keep the goods spinning.
Eric
Eric
Just throwing it out there.
Ti is an assload of weight compaired to steel. About 1/2 the weight for 2x the strength.
$600-700 PER ROD is a common price for custom machined Class-5 Titanium rods. Good Ti rods are palted to remove stress risers.
The point was that the amount of work to make this custom engine would be enormous. There's no reason to stop short. Yall don't wanna know the engine's I've seen in there. Lots of odd-ball things, lots of things you'd expect. Ever seen an SCCA Jaguar V-12 taken apart? After balancing & knife-edging the crankshaft alone goes about 150lbs!?
Ti is an assload of weight compaired to steel. About 1/2 the weight for 2x the strength.
$600-700 PER ROD is a common price for custom machined Class-5 Titanium rods. Good Ti rods are palted to remove stress risers.
The point was that the amount of work to make this custom engine would be enormous. There's no reason to stop short. Yall don't wanna know the engine's I've seen in there. Lots of odd-ball things, lots of things you'd expect. Ever seen an SCCA Jaguar V-12 taken apart? After balancing & knife-edging the crankshaft alone goes about 150lbs!?
Lextreme II
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PER Rod.... at 700 each.... that is $5,600 per set..... No thanks...Toysrme said:
turboteener
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one thing to rememer about Ti it doesn't like to be rubbed on. It gauls easily. Until a few years ago Ti rods were strictly race only for durabilty issues. I am not sure how the manufactures have gotten around that.
Supposedly Carrillo is working on some steel rods that are lighter than the Ti rods. They are supposed to be more durable. But they are more expensive than standard steel rods and they are probably available in a select few sizes.
Yes If I was dreaming this motor would have Ti valves and rods, metal matrix pistons, dry sump, high butterfly injection, variable exhaust control, etc.
Supposedly Carrillo is working on some steel rods that are lighter than the Ti rods. They are supposed to be more durable. But they are more expensive than standard steel rods and they are probably available in a select few sizes.
Yes If I was dreaming this motor would have Ti valves and rods, metal matrix pistons, dry sump, high butterfly injection, variable exhaust control, etc.
Matt Skinner
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Turboteener, they coat the rods with an anti-scuff coating. Its probably ceramic. Mate of mines dad is responsible for quality control at the UK's top rod manufacturer. Supplying people like bentley and aston martin with rods.
turboteener
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Hey that is cool as hell. See if you can get us some quality control rejects for coffee table art. I figured some sort of coatings were used to keep the gauling down, just wasn't sure what type.
Supposedly Some teams are experimenting with removing the big end bearing and coating the rods with a DLC type coatings.
Supposedly Some teams are experimenting with removing the big end bearing and coating the rods with a DLC type coatings.
the highlander
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heads can flow... the thing is the swirl.... now.. why 5.8 and not 5.7?
MikeMan
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If you are after lighter rods then the Manley alloy rods would be worth a look.
Their Super70 alloy rods in Ultra Lite 5.7" Small Journal are 445g each. (P/N 14601-8 if someone wants to price them)
By comparison the H-Lite's are 585g each for Large Journal rods (No small journal listed, but the Large Journal Super70 is listed at 486g)
David
How much do the Eagle H Beams weigh?
EDIT:
This site lists them at $796.00 a set retail. I wonder if that could be reduced with a group buy?
Their Super70 alloy rods in Ultra Lite 5.7" Small Journal are 445g each. (P/N 14601-8 if someone wants to price them)
By comparison the H-Lite's are 585g each for Large Journal rods (No small journal listed, but the Large Journal Super70 is listed at 486g)
David
How much do the Eagle H Beams weigh?
EDIT:
This site lists them at $796.00 a set retail. I wonder if that could be reduced with a group buy?
Lextreme II
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I weighted all of them somewhere.
MikeMan
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OK so the Eagle H Beams are 673g each. (From the rods page here)
That means that we can save 228g per rod or 1824g for a set of 8.
That should make the engine rev a bit faster, combined with lightweight pistons for NA use and a light flywheel you could easily save 4-5KG over stock in rotating mass.
That will increase the rev accellaration, reduce rotating losses and be like shaving 40-50KG off of whatever the engine is in.
That means that we can save 228g per rod or 1824g for a set of 8.
That should make the engine rev a bit faster, combined with lightweight pistons for NA use and a light flywheel you could easily save 4-5KG over stock in rotating mass.
That will increase the rev accellaration, reduce rotating losses and be like shaving 40-50KG off of whatever the engine is in.
Lextreme II
Just call me "Lex"
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6.0
How about 6.0 liters?
Bore 4.125 with 3.43" stroke = 6.0 Liters
How about 6.0 liters?
Bore 4.125 with 3.43" stroke = 6.0 Liters
MikeMan
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To offset grind a 1UZ/3UZ crank to that would mean 45mm big end journals which is probably to small.
Unless the 2UZ crank is strong enough this would mean custom crank and rods and is probably a step to far.
The extra 200cc would give you less than working the 5.8L harder.
Infact the best combo maybe liners and a 4.0" bore giving 5.4L and enough strength to run FI.
Unless the 2UZ crank is strong enough this would mean custom crank and rods and is probably a step to far.
The extra 200cc would give you less than working the 5.8L harder.
Infact the best combo maybe liners and a 4.0" bore giving 5.4L and enough strength to run FI.
KazeSupra
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Lextreme said:The reason i dont think the 5.8L UZFE be FI is the picture below. The block is almost machined and leave little meat left.
What about cryo-treating the block? I was reading somewhere that just cryo-treating the block can extend your engine life by 100% (meaning that engines live twice as long as non cryo-treated blocks). So to give that extra strength, get the engine prepped to where it's ready to be assembled, cryo-treat the block, and boost it? Any ideas/experience?
turboteener
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Cryo-treatment will not extend your engine life 100%. It will in some cases enhance the durability of Ferrous parts, but it should be done right after heat treatment as the effect is much better on new parts than used parts.
KazeSupra
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I have another question. I did some searching, and this is what I came up with:
We'll just consider this a 1UZ for explanation purposes.
223.49mm (8.799") Deck Height (still verifying which block this is and if it is correct)
146mm (5.748") Rod Length
82.5mm (3.248") Stroke
32.41mm (1.276") Piston Compression Height
After looking at these numbers, this is what I've come up with:
Deck Height - Rod Length - 1/2 Stroke - Piston Compression Height = Piston to Deck Clearance
223.49 - 146 - 41.25 - 32.41 = 3.83mm Clearance
Now, I couldn't really find any information on the piston to head clearance, but I'm sure someone will post it soon. Lextreme, I saw a couple of posts by you that quoted your builder being able to take it out to 3.5" of stroke (88.9mm):
223.49 - 146 - 44.5 - 32.41 = 0.58mm Clearance
My question is, is this small clearance the reason that your builder said we can't go any farther in stroke?
Another question: Are there any adverse affects in getting custom pistons to move the wrist pin up on the piston? Let's say, 6mm, to bring the Compression Height to 1". If so, we could increase the stroke to 3.75" (95.25mm), get ~5.98" Rods, and keep a 1.59 R/S Ratio. We wouldn't be able to rev as high, but with a 3.75" Stroke and 4" Bore, we could get 6.0L of displacement. We would have to get a custom Crank, which I'm working on some contacts that I will let everyone know of when I get a positive response, but my question is would it be feasible?
Just adding to the discussion.
Chris.
We'll just consider this a 1UZ for explanation purposes.
223.49mm (8.799") Deck Height (still verifying which block this is and if it is correct)
146mm (5.748") Rod Length
82.5mm (3.248") Stroke
32.41mm (1.276") Piston Compression Height
After looking at these numbers, this is what I've come up with:
Deck Height - Rod Length - 1/2 Stroke - Piston Compression Height = Piston to Deck Clearance
223.49 - 146 - 41.25 - 32.41 = 3.83mm Clearance
Now, I couldn't really find any information on the piston to head clearance, but I'm sure someone will post it soon. Lextreme, I saw a couple of posts by you that quoted your builder being able to take it out to 3.5" of stroke (88.9mm):
223.49 - 146 - 44.5 - 32.41 = 0.58mm Clearance
My question is, is this small clearance the reason that your builder said we can't go any farther in stroke?
Another question: Are there any adverse affects in getting custom pistons to move the wrist pin up on the piston? Let's say, 6mm, to bring the Compression Height to 1". If so, we could increase the stroke to 3.75" (95.25mm), get ~5.98" Rods, and keep a 1.59 R/S Ratio. We wouldn't be able to rev as high, but with a 3.75" Stroke and 4" Bore, we could get 6.0L of displacement. We would have to get a custom Crank, which I'm working on some contacts that I will let everyone know of when I get a positive response, but my question is would it be feasible?
Just adding to the discussion.
Chris.
MikeMan
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Well if the MID sleeves work we can get 5.8L or 353ci with an 84.07 (3.31")mm stroke and 104.78mm (4.125") bore.
We should also be able to get to 84.5mm bore with offset gringing and aftermarket bearings for the chev rods which is 355.7ci
We should also be able to get to 84.5mm bore with offset gringing and aftermarket bearings for the chev rods which is 355.7ci
scrubnick
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From what the SR20 people have said, piston makers don't like to go less than 26mm on compression height. Bad for the rings.
KazeSupra
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scrubnick said:
Well, that's a step in the right direction. 26mm is still 6mm we could use for something else, like extra rod length or extra stroke.
For instance if we use my earlier example with new numbers:
223.49mm (8.799") Deck Height (still verifying)
146mm (5.748") Rod Length
88.9mm (3.500") Stroke
26mm (1.023") Piston Compression Height
223.49 - 146 - 44.45 - 26 = 7.04mm of clearance
146/88.9 = 1.64 r/s ratio
Now we have a few more mm left to play with. Let's say we increase the rod length to 151 (5.945") and the stroke to 92mm (3.622").
223.49 - 151 - 46 - 26 = .49mm clearance
151/92 = 1.64 r/s ratio
Again, this is not including the headgasket clearance or the squish volume. This is just clearance to the top of the deck, if the deck is as high as I posted above.
FYI, 4" bore + 92mm Stroke = 5.96L...
Ninja Edit...I wonder how hard it is to make a deck spacer...I would just need 15mm...165mm Rod = 1.8 r/s ratio = 8000rpm 6.0L...mmmm...
scrubnick
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That's some good news right there. The other stuff I hear on the SR forums is that crazy large overbores even with sleeves, is not good for forced induction. It's a much better idea to run a smaller bore and perhaps a larger stroke in those cases.
This might not be pertinent information, but I read about rod length comparison on Honda engines. Identical B18's were built, one with long rods (1.75ish) and one with short rods (1.5ish). Everything else remained the same. On the dyno, the short rod engine made more power over the entire RPM range and had more peak power.
This might not be pertinent information, but I read about rod length comparison on Honda engines. Identical B18's were built, one with long rods (1.75ish) and one with short rods (1.5ish). Everything else remained the same. On the dyno, the short rod engine made more power over the entire RPM range and had more peak power.
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