What to do with Celsior 91 suspension.

[skraggy_uk]

OK, I have a 91 Celsior. I bought it for bargain bucket money, so the minor flaws and lack of history aren't a problem. I can either drive it into the ground and lose nothing, or have fun now, spend money when needed and fix it up.

It is a UCF11, but the airshocks have been replaced with fixed height/damping shocks and springs.

The good side to this is that it has a loverly smooth ride, the bad side is it rolls heavy on corners, and dives like a submarine on heavy braking to a stop.

Cost wise I imagine that it won't be much different importing refurb airbags from the US, or a set of JIC Magics from elsewhere (assuming the pump/pipes/wiring is intact and working).

I have the pump in the trunk, and what looks like a nitrogen cannister on the LHS under the hood, plus signs of wiring arround the front struts which still have the "TEMS" plastic caps on.

Which would you do? I will tune the motor eventually, but there is enough performance currently to overdo the handling ATM. brakes wise, if they are available, I plan to fit DBA brake discs, and Akebono Ceramic pads or equivalents. I fitted them onto my old GT-Four/All-Trac and they worked harder, cooler and with less dust than standard kit.

BTW, I haven't looked under yet, but do the air suspension models have sway bars fitted?

I'm in the UK which hampers available kit for reasonable money.

 

[Jake Breyck]

the choice between air bags and coilovers should be a no brainer, what is your style, rolling around pimping or being able to take that twisty road with anger / hit up a track day. for me it would be the latter (twisty roads with anger and trackdays) so its a no brainer for coilovers, ive never once had the thought run though my head about getting airbags.

im sure a car that heavy has sway bars front and rear but i would look into upgrading them also people have been putting mkiv supra breaks on the lexus cars which would be a good upgrade im sure there is info about that elsewhere in this forum also a bushing kit would be somthing that would help firm up the chassis.

but as for what direction to go with the car, thats up to you, although your here so it looks like a performance is the direction you are leaning twords.

 

[skraggy_uk]

It will be a daily driver, for fast roading, not trackdays. I like a little comfort though. What made me think about the Airbags is that my boss uses his wife's RX300 to tow the trailer at work (the DB9 is saved having a hitch fitted). The air suspension feels so solid, and even yet comfy at the same time. Made me wonder what an LS/Celsior would handle like on air instead of fixed height coils.

I have one advantage over cheap shocks ATM though. I think the TEMS is still connected. The TEMS light is out on the dash until the switch is flicked and the car appears firmer and more stable with slightly less roll/dive than with it switched off.

 

[dicko]

i checked out a few celsiors with the simple electronic shocks rather than the full airbag suspension. The ones where it has the little picture of all 4 struts light up in orange when you "turn it on". dont think this kind had airbags from the factory. Personally i would stick with coilovers or standard struts, airbags tend to be more trouble than they're worth. It will be much cheaper too. I have an LS400 Lexus without airbags and i know what you mean when you say it rolls like a bitch, but i think some nice coilovers and a proper rear swaybar should fix it up without having to worry about airbags.

also do you mean UCF10?

 

[Peewee]

More trouble then they are worth?

Providing you don't lower the car too much they'll last 200,000km's.

I plan on buying all new Arnott Industries airbags within the next year, funds dependant.

UCF10 = springs/shocks
UCF11 = airbags

 

[dicko]

More trouble then they are worth?

Providing you don't lower the car too much they'll last 200,000km's.

I plan on buying all new Arnott Industries airbags within the next year, funds dependant.

UCF10 = springs/shocks
UCF11 = airbags

good to know. It's just they cost over $1000 per wheel. Would you say they are more comfortable than the average set of lowered springs & shocks? i found it hard to differentiate in ride quality.

 

[skraggy_uk]

Unfortunatley, weeks on, I'm no closer.:damnit:

Nobody stocks decent coilovers in the UK for the LS/Celsior. Arnotts are the cheapest for bags (anyone know a way of testing the pump etc so I don't waste time and money on airbags), or about £1000gbp+shipping on Jic coilovers. And we get the delight that if customs open the package we can get busted for 25% of the cost with import duty and sales tax.

I've even looked at Tanabe/Bilstein/Koni importers in the UK, but nobody has anything.

 

[Brandicus]

Unfortunatley, weeks on, I'm no closer.:damnit:

Nobody stocks decent coilovers in the UK for the LS/Celsior. Arnotts are the cheapest for bags (anyone know a way of testing the pump etc so I don't waste time and money on airbags), or about £1000gbp+shipping on Jic coilovers. And we get the delight that if customs open the package we can get busted for 25% of the cost with import duty and sales tax.

I've even looked at Tanabe/Bilstein/Koni importers in the UK, but nobody has anything.

sorry to link another forum on here but the vendors on vipstylecars can source you whatever kind of coilovers you want.. if your willing to import them from japan.

http://vipstylecars.com/forums/announcement.php?f=15&a=6

 

[skraggy_uk]

sorry to link another forum on here but the vendors on vipstylecars can source you whatever kind of coilovers you want.. if your willing to import them from japan.

http://vipstylecars.com/forums/announcement.php?f=15&a=6

Thanks, yeah, importing wouldn't be a problem. I've bought from Takakaira in Japan, an Ebayer in Malaysia, and another in HK for various bits I've needed for my old GT4/All-Trac and now for the Celsior.

 

[richonenz]

I like my air suspension !!
I like it even though the replacement cost is initially high , after going to NZ to play with my brothers 93 LS400 with normal struts trying to lower it and yet stay with the ride he wanted means I like it even more !!
The debate about air or no air will go on forever , I have an after market controller that also allows me to increase the firmness of the suspension even more than the sport setting and the ability to set the car at what ever height I like is awesome , also the fact that whatever or who ever is in the car and it sits at the same height , a great thing !!
I have Arnotts bags in the front at a cost of $500.00 each and they have been in there for about 16 mths now and I'm very happy with them .
Personally I think the air system is very cheap , the original struts lasted 16 years !!
Try getting that out of a coil-over or a normal type strut !!

 

[skraggy_uk]

Oh, I agree, the air system is very trick and as long as you don't over stress it by running high all the time it will last well.
My worry is, at $2k for 4 bags, plus a couple of hundred $ for international shipping, I might get busted for uk customs duty and sales tax which would add roughly 25%.

Then I need someone who can fit it test it and then diagnose any other problems because I don't imagine everything will work first time after however many years it has been disabled.

At least with coilovers to replace the standard shocks and struts, it is the kind of thing any monkey can do.

 

[Nappa]

I like my air suspension !!
I like it even though the replacement cost is initially high , after going to NZ to play with my brothers 93 LS400 with normal struts trying to lower it and yet stay with the ride he wanted means I like it even more !!
The debate about air or no air will go on forever , I have an after market controller that also allows me to increase the firmness of the suspension even more than the sport setting and the ability to set the car at what ever height I like is awesome , also the fact that whatever or who ever is in the car and it sits at the same height , a great thing !!
I have Arnotts bags in the front at a cost of $500.00 each and they have been in there for about 16 mths now and I'm very happy with them .
Personally I think the air system is very cheap , the original struts lasted 16 years !!
Try getting that out of a coil-over or a normal type strut !!

Hey Buddy, i'm not sure how much experience you've had with the bags, but i was driving home from sydney the other day and things started getting real bumpy and unstable. I pulled up to macca's and the rear left airbag was just pissing air and the right one was going down too but not so fast. Anyway, tried letting it idle n pump them up but nowway was the left one going up ay . . . 300kays on the bump stops later and im home, my back is really sore n the lex is looking pretty crap.
SO! i checked out those arnott's ones and they look like the go, my question is did you buy them and have them shipped yourself? or did u buy them from a distributor here in oz? Coil over's would be cheaper but bags are real comfy and will tuck 20's more favourably. . .:stups:

 

[richonenz]

Having had a fair bit to do with mine and about 8 other celsior's I have a gained some experience .
I bought my Arnotts fronts from Suncore industries in the States , you can get them direct from Arnotts [ same price ] but they can be awfully slow to answer E-mails .
Arnotts new on the front as they have a complete billet top , BUT not Arnotts on the rear , they apparantly cut them apart and do whatever and then weld them back up , not sure of the quality or exactly what it is they do ??
So either fit genuine rears at Aus $800.00 each from Castle Hill Toyota or get UCF21 rears in from Japan at about Aus $250.00 .
I have just fitted some UCF 21 fronts to another Celsior and with some thread mods they are OK so far .
Take in mind the 21 units are 5 years younger than the UCF11's , personally I would just not fit 16 to 17 year old air struts , just not worth it .
I have brand new genuines in the back of mine with the Arnotts in the front and I'm very happy .
If you do the Arnotts on the front and 21 rears from Japan thats a total cost of $1500.00 , that's only $375.00 a corner and that's very cheap !!
Try getting some DECENT coil-overs for that !!
There is some talk that the UCF21 struts have a different travel amount and that the dampening will be not right ?
Haven't found that so far and probably not as critical on the rear ?
Don't know and guess I will find out with the Cel I have just done...eventually .

 

[Nappa]

Sweet man, i emailed them like a week ago on delivery prices and i got nothin. I'l let u know how i go but im out of time 4 now!

 

[Nappa]

Okay, so the ucf21 airbag struts front and rear will all bolt up to a 90 model no worries, but when you hit the tems button they dont stiffen up or they stiffen up too much? (or not at all) is that what you mean by dampenning?

 

[richonenz]

Not at all , what i think " they " are saying is that because the stroke is different then the dampening is happening in a different part of the stroke and that the struts might not last as long ??
Again I don't know but will soon !!

 

[Nappa]

Ok cool. just double checking cos i've got a full set of airbags from a ucf21 celsior that they bolt up no worries....
Not keen on finding out the hard way if they dont fit.

 

[richonenz]

I've just fitted two UCF21 struts into a UCF 11 , the input onto the shock has gone from female to male , same fitting for the air line but the nut now has an internal thread rather than an external thread .
Sooo I cut the the spud on the UCF21 strut off flush and then drilled it out to 10.5 mm to take a 12 x 1.25 thread , I then used the hex spud nut that screws into most UCF 11 front struts , this takes the standard hose fitting , I screwed this nut onto the UCF21 strut into the new thread with an aluminium washer for it to seal against , total success and it just clears the strut tunnel when installed .
Not a difficult mod if you have the gear , near impossible if you don't .