W2A Vs. Water/Meth Injection

[Lextreme II]

Anyone know what is the cooling effeciency between a Water to Air intercooler Vs. 50/50 Water/Meth Injection? I am referring to Root Supercharger type of intercooling. As I was reading on the Ford GT40. It utilized a M112 with W2A and it made some good power I wonder if a good set up of 50/50 injection would have similar effeciency.

 

[Toysrme]

water injection is the truth.
combustion chambers stay carbon free
some parts of the combustion chamber temps themselves are slightly lowered
detonation is reduced outright as combustion slows down
NACA paper showed they made more power @ stoich with tons of water without audiable knocking than they could at 12.5:1 or 10:1 A/F ratios without any.

nice.


ofcorse run both if possible, but water/alcohol injection is the easyest way. you can either use it to tune for more power than typically would be able to reach, or you can use it as a massive fail-safe to the fuel system.

 

[XR8tt]

Guys I know who have played with this find its better to use straight metho or alcohol.. The water mixture lowers power..

 

[lowfat_hg]

60/40

Latent heat of evaporation of water is the killer and saviour here. It removes energy from the intake charge (ie heat). This energy loss from the incoming air results on less energy in the overall combustion process, ie less power -(if all other reactants are not changed).
The usual result is we cram more boost and more fuel in to make power -
however, to regain the lost energy a 60/40 water/meth mix will reclaim the exact amount of energy lost due to the cooler intake charge caused by the water evaporating.
I have the maths of it somewhere.
first widespread use was in ww2 aircraft engines to reclaim power at high boost and high altitiudes, still used today in air liners. the meth also prohibits icing in the water at higher altitudes and allows the use of the mix for far longer than otherwise able-

 

[Kev]

Firstly, I dont claim to know very much about water/meth injection. But I have read that the water can have a negative effect in relation to making the motor deteriate quicker. That being the moist conditions can cause rusting to components. I know that you are going to say that the 1UZ is alloy, but not all of it.

Does the roots type chargers build up boost as the revs increase like a turbo, or is near max boost from opening of the throttle. If its the earlier type, why couldn't you have a supercharger that makes 12 psi (or whatever you want) and have a hobs pressure switch kick in at around 7 psi and above to supply the water/methanol injection.

I'm looking at intercooling my M90 1UZ when i fianlly have all the parts and water/methanol would be a lot cheaper and easier. I will have to do some more research myself. Had a quote for the Laminova type water to air intercooler setups for inside my manifold that I am going to make and was shocked at the $2000+ price :censored:

Kev

 

[lowfat_hg]

water injection is not bad for your engine so long as the system does not leak. make sure you have check valves and good quality solenoids. the worst case is if the system was to drain into the intake and hydraulic lock a cylinder - easlily avoidable with a bit of forethought.
as for intercooling, i just bought a water/air intercooler from ebay for $150, good for about 600hp.
the core (and endtanks) is the most expensive part. I also just bought a vortech core (see capa website) and endtanks for my supercharged 3.3l in my eh. because its show i spent a bit more money - it looks the goods though.
You can adapt an oem core from a subaru or get one made. I would opt for a barrel type from pwr then make the rest of the system myself. AIr conditioner heat exchanger or the like to cool the water etc,there are heaps of options for a cheap solution.

 

[JustenGT8]

I run a/a IC on my TTUZ AND WI with a variable mix of meth in there to help stop any weird algal growth etc. It did cost me hp at low boost but with higher boost and more timing it had really come into it's own.

In slowing down the flame front the intent is to keep the combustion 'bang' going longer which increases torque ergo increases hp too.

Get it right and there's power to be had but even if the setup isn't optimum it provides safety and does allow you to run decent boost.

 

[XR8tt]

If inlet temps are too high then [as in turbo terms] the compressor is too small or boost is too high... Alcohol cools heaps.. Look at the alcohol cars hats ice up on staging lanes....

 

[Toysrme]

inlet temp is only one factor in how hot the resulting combustion chamber temp is.

 

[rms]

While methanol has a large intake air cooling affect, it is not as good as a well designed a/a or w2a intercooler.
The data log is from a 2.2ltr blown VW running straight methanol and no intercooler. Boost is around 20/25psi. Intake temps 50/75 deg C.

A well designed a/a intercooler can maintain inlet temps around 15 deg C above ambient.

 

[XR8tt]

inlet temp is only one factor in how hot the resulting combustion chamber temp is.

Exactly..Compression or cylinder pressure causes internal heat ...This is where boost is not exactly a degree of power... If you have a 7.5 compression motors the boost / air flow will need to be much higher than say a 10 to 1 engine..The potential to make power is higher if blower / compressor can supply enough air...