Sold the 700hp dsm, Gonna turbo the daily

[mitsuguy]

Well, Since I got rid of my DSM, I'm going to turbo my SC400...

I've grown out of needing a car that traps 140, but lets be realistic - a sctock sc400 is freaking SLOW...

So, here's the idea, and I'm looking for any insight...

First off, I'll tell everyone this - I have full access to a fabrication shop, so I can build pretty much whatever I need, that can't be bought off the shelf...

Ok, so, take a stock SC400, leave the stock headers/manifolds on the car, remove the two cats in the downpipe location, and fabricate a custom Y-pipe with a T4 flange on the end. Mount the turbo in the location of the stock main cat. Feed oil from the engine to the turbo via -3 or -4 an stainless line. Oil will flow out of the turbo into a small reservoir, which will have an electric oil pump mounted to it to move oil back to the engine. Inlet piping will come from the fenderwell area, and charge piping will route back into the engine compartment with a small air to water intercooler with a radiator for it mounted in the front fenderwell. A 40 mm wastegate will be utilized, and a 50mm Tial BOV as well...

The turbo I want to use is a 60-1 (maybe a 62-1) with a .68 a/r T4 hotside, as the compressor map shows 70% efficiency at 1.6 pr (8.8psi charge outlet) and flowing just over 45 lbs/min airflow... According to these specs, and assuming a little over 1 psi pressure drop over the IC, we can have 7.5 psi at the motor, a cool intake charge (charge temps will be less than 200 degrees BEFORE the IC), and make 450 crank hp on a good tune...

Any ideas, nags, bitches?

Better yet, what would someone pay for a BOLT IN kit like this? I am thinking it can all be done, turbo, ic, piping, radiator, pump, and all for around $3000...

 

[rarson]

While I don't disagree that the resevior idea would work, I'd be hesitant to try it. But I was thinking something similar myself, and I'd like to see how it works so if you're the guinea pig, more power to you!

 

[Toysrme]

Hey that's how I did my v6 LoL!
I didn't use a res tho, just hooked the pump directly up to the oil supply. It's too hard to mount a res below where the turbo will mount so it'll flow. Just get whatever electric pump you need as close to the turbo outlet as possible as electric pumps tend to have poor suction.


It'll work, but I wouldn't use a 60-1, or 62-1 now that better turbo's are avalible for less money. A GT40 would be better. A few more psi on a GT35R would be just as good with a better spool.
If cost is the reason for doing a 60, or 62, buy one of the new Holset's used for a couple hundred & run maybe a bar of boost. They're quite effecient & much faster spooling.

 

[Lextreme II]

The biggest problem i see would be oil return. How would the electric pump compensate for high rpm oil pressure and volume if the pump is pumping at a constant rate. If this problem is not solve, you can kiss your turbo seals good bye very soon.

Secondly, single turbo will be too big to fit under the car. T60-1 or GT35-40 will be too big. I would go with twin 28RS to GT2871R. Something like the size of T3. If the turbo is too large, then clearance would be an issue.

 

[rarson]

GT35R will only work with a gravity drain setup. There is very little oil pressure flowing through the CHRA and it's too easy to screw ball bearing CHRA's up when the oil flow isn't dead-on.

 

[chrisman]

you can use an electric pump--dc motors will work at a different speed at different voltages.. so you can vary the speed by varying the voltage.. that would be a simple way to try and get more oil thru the turbo when needed.--BUT,, pumps are, generally, not designed to work at variable speeds.. another way would be to have 2 pumps--one on all the time,, one on when you need it..
either way,, trying it and getting results is the quickest way to find out..
rarson--i think that ball bearings would require a "stable+ costant" oil supply.. and would work better if the oil pressure didnt vary as much as it does from an auto engine oil pump.. an electric pump would be an ideal source of oil pressure/supply..
but oil plays a MAJOR part in cooling the turbo,, so an efficiant cooler of some sort must be figured into any of these setups..

 

[mitsuguy]

Here are the things I considered when making the choices regarding turbo...

a GT35r is a great turbo, I used one on a good friends car to put down over 500 at the wheels on a stock motor'd EVO... But, the compressor map sucks for what I want - To get the airflow I want, I'd have to run more boost... More boost on a 10:1 cr motor can spell disaster pretty quick, so I've set all of this with a boost goal at the motor of 7-8 psi tops... I also specifically do NOT want a ball bearing turbo - nothing wrong with them, but they are a lot more picky when it comes to oil supply, and I don't want to have to screw with that at all...

The setup I was looking at when I referenced my oil sump system was based on a turbo kit off of a Focus... Something alot these lines:

any more ideas? I looked at it again, and although I don't have a 60-1 or similar here to test, it appears as though it'd fit...

 

[Lextreme II]

I have been thinking about this for the pass few years. An independant oil system strictly for the turbo/s would work perfectly. The oil will be gravity feed into the turbo and the electric pump will evacuate the oil from the turbo and pump it back to the top sump via an oil cooler. So the turbo oil system is independant of the engine oil.

 

[mitsuguy]

I have been thinking about this for the pass few years. An independant oil system strictly for the turbo/s would work perfectly. The oil will be gravity feed into the turbo and the electric pump will evacuate the oil from the turbo and pump it back to the top sump via an oil cooler. So the turbo oil system is independant of the engine oil.

bad idea... the oil suply for a turbo, especially a journal bearing turbo needs to be high pressure... Even a ball bearing turbo needs in the 15-25 psi pressure range, IIRC...

 

[Lextreme II]

Here is a picture of it:

 

[rarson]

Depending on the height and weight of fluid in the sump, you are going to have a certain amount of head applied by the tank. In other words, you're going to get some kind of pressure. Actually, with this setup, I think it would work well for a ball-bearing. You might be able to design the tank with enough head to feed the bearing (typically they are fed off the head which is very low pressure). Add in a level sensor that can turn the pump on at a certain level and turn it off at a certain level. Then you could ensure that oil does not back up in the drain line. Might require another little sump underneath the turbo.

 

[mitsuguy]

http://westech.home.mindspring.com/propages/scvpump.htm

check that out... can move oil up to .9 qt/minute 30" vertically...

Should be able to be plumbed inline with the turbo return, and then move it back to the motor no problem...

 

[Lextreme II]

Tilton make a very similar electric oil pump and the price is about 175. Perhaps they are the same with different lable.

 

[Toysrme]

The Tilton pump is what's used by STS, and the other big under car turbo people (I forget their name, but their mainstay has been vettes).

 

[mitsuguy]

thanks, thats the exact info I was looking for!

The Tilton pump is what's used by STS, and the other big under car turbo people (I forget their name, but their mainstay has been vettes).

 

[JBrady]

I am actually thinking along these lines myself. I would NOT recommend the stock exhaust manifolds as the contruction makes for terrible flow.

Regarding a stand alone oil system, this is also something I have been thinking about. Something very similar to Lextreme's only without the top resevoir or vent. The pump would do double duty, scavenge and provide inlet pressure.

I intend to build a sump for the bottom of the turbo but much more compact and durable. It would be no lower than the turbine housing but provide space for the oil to separate from air and a solid outlet hose connection.

I also already have a 60-1 compressor housing and wheel. I intend to do a remote low mount in the area of the mid mufflers on the LS400. No measurements yet, all in my head, plans will change if space is insufficient.