Project MV8R a V8 into a 1991-1999 MR2

[cbulen]

I participate mainly in the a MR2 forum that does not have content spidered by Google, so you won't see any of the info there pop up on Google searches. As a result, many of you might not be aware of my project.

I am introducing, to you all, Project MV8R (named after the SARD MC8R LeMans MR2)

I have a 1993 turbo (my turquoise car) that will eventually get this powerplant after I get the bugs worked out. I am using a 1991 (red) MR2 as my test mule. My 93T is in beautiful condition, and my 91na is...........not

Anyway, the gist of the project is a Northstar V8 + GM F40 6 speed manual tranny, and hybrid GM + MR2 axles.
I know it has been suggested on this forum, as well as MANY MANY others that a 1UZ-FE v8 from a lexus should be used. This is impracticle for many many reasons. The biggest reason is that it is simply too long to fit the 2nd gen chassis (and probably the first gen too). The front pulley would have to be inside of the tire. It just ain't gonna happen, folks.

Acutally, it could, but only if you want to build a whole tube frame for the rear of the car, and re-engineer the whole back of the car, and you must mount the motor longitudinal. In this case, the Lexus is not ideal, as the front of the motor would be in the cabin.

I decided to take a different approach. I went and tried to find an engine that would fit the mk2 transversely. I found one, the Audi ABZ, but found this engine was not suitable mainly because it was never offered in a transverse application, so Audi inconveniently put the block skirt, the starter, the oil pump, the oil pump drive, etc. in the way of the intermediate shaft and right axle.

Mike_H on the MR2 forums has done the World's First V8 2nd gen MR2. He used the Audi 4.2 V8 (engine code ABZ), and mounted it longitudinal. He used this engine because its around 6.5 inches SHORTER than the 1UZ. The Audi is 20.63 long, the 1UZ is around 27 inches. The N* is 23 inches long and required some cutting of the chassis, when I bolted it to a transaxle that is shorter than the Toyota MR2 turbo trans.

So, I decided to use the N*. This is an ongoing project. The N* now fits the car (a bit of cutting was required, but not as much as you might think).
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CBulen
Project MV8R: Sign up for the build manual

 

[Zuffen]

Some other guy in the States has a Website (sorry no longer know the address) where he put a Northstar into an early MR2.

He seemed to retain the body shell but not much of the rails etc, and none of the suspension.

I assume your's is going to be road registered?

Interesting comments on engine length. I know the 1UZ is physically large for its capacity.

 

[cbulen]

I think you are referring to Bill Strong and his site at http://v8mr2.com which is project Toystar.

I brought it to his attention, that the GM F40 6 speed bolts up to the N*, so he and I are collaborating on using this tranny with the N* in the MR2. He is using all the knuckles, brakes, etc. from the 91-99 turbo MR2 on his early MR2.

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CBulen
Project MV8R: V8 swap into a MR2

 

[JustenGT8]

UZ has been done in a MKI so must be doable in a MKII....that's not to say the Northstar won't be easier.

You can shorten the UZ quite a bit if you run DFI as ditching the dizzys gives you 3 inches easy.

Anyways,, should be an interesting ride when finished either way

 

[cbulen]

UZ has been done in a MKI so must be doable in a MKII....that's not to say the Northstar won't be easier.

You can shorten the UZ quite a bit if you run DFI as ditching the dizzys gives you 3 inches easy.

Anyways,, should be an interesting ride when finished either way

Do the Dizzy's stick out of the front of the heads of the 1UZ or the rear?
If its the rear, it won't help, as they would be over the transaxle. If they stick out in front, that changes everything.


IIRC, the 27" length measurement on the 1UZ photo I saw was rear engine face (bellhousing face) to the front pulley. If it is 27", then its simply too long. The N* is 23" and I had to notch the MR2 on both sides. THe 6 speedTransaxle is 14.3"

Compare this to the 3S-GTE (20") + E153 (16")

 

[cjsupra90]

Nice swap there!!! For a second, you have me fooled. Being that you referanced the SARD's car, I was thinking that you were doing it like the real SARD's MC8R (i.e. stretched and the engine longitudinally mounted, not horizontally mounted)... Still a nice project non the less....

A fellow member on here and myself have toyed with the idea of doing one exactly like the SARD's car with longitudinally mounted drivetrain......

 

[JustenGT8]

Do the Dizzy's stick out of the front of the heads of the 1UZ or the rear?
If its the rear, it won't help, as they would be over the transaxle. If they stick out in front, that changes everything.


IIRC, the 27" length measurement on the 1UZ photo I saw was rear engine face (bellhousing face) to the front pulley. If it is 27", then its simply too long. The N* is 23" and I had to notch the MR2 on both sides. THe 6 speedTransaxle is 14.3"

Compare this to the 3S-GTE (20") + E153 (16")

Dissy's are off the front.

Inches?? you yanks crack me up using units from ye olden times

Are you going nth/sth with this engine or east/west?

Transaxle makes it sound like Nth/sth?

 

[cbulen]

Its East/West in my project. THe goal is to get this done in the easist way possible (note I mean easiest in the relative sense). This is not an easy project in the absolute sense, but then, its not rocket science.

Inches, Miles, yup, we are backwards. Actually, we are worse than backwards, as we tend to use ye olden english units and Metric on the same car!

 

[JustenGT8]

I have a bare engine with crank pulley at home i can measure?

 

[cjsupra90]

Its East/West in my project. THe goal is to get this done in the easist way possible (note I mean easiest in the relative sense). This is not an easy project in the absolute sense, but then, its not rocket science.

Yeah, east/west would deffinitly be a lot easier as it would be far less extensive body and chassis mods then a north/south arangment.....

Either way though, still an awesome project and look forward to the finnished product...

 

[JustenGT8]

Yeah, east/west would deffinitly be a lot easier as it would be far less extensive body and chassis mods then a north/south arangment.....

Either way though, still an awesome project and look forward to the finnished product...

Space dependent (and the boot would be sacrificed) i reckon a nth/sth V8 conversion with transaxle would be easier. A subframe to hold the engine (similar to what i used for the GT8) off the stock chassis rails would be pretty easy and add a heap of structural integrity.

It's been done in a Lotus Elise (albeit a tad lengthened) and they are tiny compared to a MkII MR2

BTW length measurement of the shortest you could feasibly get the UZ is 620mm and that's with a custom crank pulley. Nth Star sure is a compact unit?

 

[Pro]

1 - fkn cool project dude! me likey lots.
2 - WTF is a Northstar V8?
3 - cheers.

 

[cbulen]

I had to cut the car to make the Cadillac Northstar 4.6L V8 fit (answered two questions at once!)

But, I did NOT have to cut the car AS much as you might initially assume.

As for the brunk (back trunk or rear boot in UK english), no space was used yet, with the exception of making a small dent in the trunk firewall.

 

[cbulen]

The 1UZ is about 26 inches (stock pulley to rear engine face, or bellhousing interface). I call this the critical dimension. The N* critical dimension is 23 inches. (584 mm). The Audi 4.2L V8 is even shorter at 20.6inches (534mm) !! Unfortunatly, it is too difficult to use in a transverse application. For longitudinal it is the best choice. Mike_H did that with his V8 MR2 mark 2. Andy Hill used the Audi + Audi transaxle in his 83 Lotus Esprit (Andy did it first and is my inspiration and hero).

Its critical because it drives so many aspects of fitting this engine in the car.

I had to cut the subframes a bit. The MR2 subframes are not really subframes, but are just stamped sheet metal in the shape of frame rails. They are part of the unibody. I will weld them back up with doublers, so they will be stronger than orginal, but a bit heavier. its thin guage metal, so its not a lot of weight.

I am currently having a bit of an axle length issue on the left side, and I am considering notching the shock tower to clear the engine head (rear bank, or right bank relative to the engine), which would allow me to move the whole mess to the right.

 

[cbulen]

Nice swap there!!! For a second, you have me fooled. Being that you referanced the SARD's car, I was thinking that you were doing it like the real SARD's MC8R (i.e. stretched and the engine longitudinally mounted, not horizontally mounted)... Still a nice project non the less....

A fellow member on here and myself have toyed with the idea of doing one exactly like the SARD's car with longitudinally mounted drivetrain......

Check out Mike_H's V8 MR2 mark2. His is the first one in the world that we know of, behind the MC8R. He went longitudinal. The front of the engine is in the cabin (he built a new firewall). It runs/drives!

I hope to have mine running in about 13 fortnights or so ;-)

Yes, East/West is the easiest (not easy, but easier than alternatives) way to mount the engine.

______
CBulen
Project MV8R: Sign up for the free newsletter

 

[cbulen]

UZ has been done in a MKI so must be doable in a MKII....that's not to say the Northstar won't be easier.

You can shorten the UZ quite a bit if you run DFI as ditching the dizzys gives you 3 inches easy.

Anyways,, should be an interesting ride when finished either way

I have seen the build thread for the 1UZ powered Mark1. He used extensive tube framing in the rear of the car. He also moved the hubs out which widened the space for the engine and transaxle.

This is extensive customization and re-engineering of the back of the car. My goals are more modest, and I am putting the engine and trans in without any tube frame structure, or moving the shock towers. However, (not sure yet) I may have to do a custom bolt-on crossmember.

 

[cbulen]

Oh yeah, you Aussies may not be aware of Bill Strong's car (he also owns the MR2OC.com forum). Check out his site at www.v8mr2.com

 

[cbulen]

Nice swap there!!! For a second, you have me fooled. Being that you referanced the SARD's car, I was thinking that you were doing it like the real SARD's MC8R (i.e. stretched and the engine longitudinally mounted, not horizontally mounted)... Still a nice project non the less....

A fellow member on here and myself have toyed with the idea of doing one exactly like the SARD's car with longitudinally mounted drivetrain......

Thank you for the comments. I did consider doing a SARD type of MR2. I decided against it. The reason I rejected the idea was because it would take huge amounts of engineering and work to cut the car like that, and add the tube frames. I think (speculating here) that the SARD used a tube frame in the front, and custom suspension. essentially, the only part of the original MR2 left was the basic shell, and they only used the center portion of that (cabin area).

So it would actually be easier to start with a different car. Now that the Factory Five GTM kit is only $20K, and the Corvette parts can be had as a kit on eBay for around $5 to 7K, I just don't see the point in doing that much work to an MR2. I could spend a lot less time (and maybe more money, but what is your time worth?) on the GTM. Plus it would be a whole lot easier to build. Aftermarket upgrades to the engine would be easier, and the car would be very unique, and probably lighter and faster. Too bad its so damn ugly.at:

As I get older, I think about how difficult a project is going to be, and compare that to how much available time and frustration I can tolerate. If the project looks like it will exceed my available time/frustration, I won't start it. The SARD looks extremely difficult compared to the alternative.

 

[cjsupra90]

Personally, I dont think the GTM is that bad (looks wise) but could be better and yes, it would be easier to just build a GTM but the whole point is the unique factor of a (sorta) true MC8-R....

Yes, the MC8-R was an entire tube frame car with a complete CF body molded from a SW20 (and obviously modified for th stretch). It was never really built to be concidered an MR2 to begin with... SARD built it to run in GT but they had to build atleast one street version which is the MC8 because of homologation rules which basically state the the street version of the car has to be identical in apperiance and thus a standard SW20 MR2 could NOT be used.. The MC8 street car was an otherwise stock SW20 that had just a rear section built and attached (Basically)....

 

[Jake Breyck]

Check out Mike_H's V8 MR2 mark2.

Could you please elaburate on this possably with a link?