Possible solution to piston and rod issues??

[cowboy bebop]

Everyone will have to excuse me, because I'm an amateur at this like most here but I'm been doing the homework about what pistons and rods would fit the 1uz-fe. I have taken a good look at the Nissan VQ35 in the 350Z, and their dimensions..

UZFE (All uzfe engines):
Crank End (big end) Diameter 2.165"
Pin End (small end) Diameter .864"
Rod length 5.7455"
2uz-fe bore: 3.70
1uz-fe stroke: 3.25


Nissan 350Z (03-04)
VQ35DE 3.760 Bore,
3.205 Stroke,
Rod length 5.669,
pin diameter: .866
Head cc 57.0,
Gasket .024,
Deck .000,
Compression ratio 8.5, 11.0:1

Couldn't Darton MID wet sleeve (VQ35DE M.I.D. 95-100MM) in 96mm bore be used in the 1uz-fe without having to modify the heads, along with the Wiseco VG35DE forged pistons, and Pauter rods? The pin diamter is very nearly equal, variable CR, very nearly the same rod length, 4V valve cuts already in place. The CR could be controlled with various sized MLS head gaskets.

These pistons are readily available, and when use with the Pauter rods would not require the 1uz-fe crank to be altered. It would still equal a 4.7 Liter and rev sky high due to the 1.72 rod ratio.

As I said I am an amateur at this, can can someone explain to me why this would not work?

Thanks guys, I love this forum,

Eric

 

[cjsupra90]

Eric, It might work, but I dont think that the sleeves would fit with out major block and head mods, and also we would need to know the piston height.

 

[cowboy bebop]

What I was thinking was to use the 2uz-fe heads since it's set-up for a 3.70" bore anyways, so they wouldn't need any modifications due to an overbore, since it'd be .080 over. The Darton sleeves require some major work, but the 1uz-fe would then be a 4.7L and be bulletproof.

Piston:

The Compression height on the VG35DE is 1.168
The Compression height on the 1uz-fe is 1.336????

If we went with 11:1CR, would that make up for the Compression Height difference? Or possibly stroking the crank to 3.40" to make up the deficit?


Mathamatically, using the 3uz-fe measurements as a reference (1uz is the same block), we see that the:

Bore diameter is 90.90mm
the ISS is 14.58mm / 2 (for between the two cylinders) is 7.29mm
Bore + ISS/2 = 98.197mm
Darton MID sleeve bore= 96mm
(Bore + ISS/2) - Darton MID Bore sleeve= 2.196mm

Max sleeve thickness= 2.196mm

Please correct me if I am wrong...

Eric

 

[cowboy bebop]

OR............................Another option.....

A stock 1uz-fe block
3.25 stroke

Mkiv Supra Eagle, Pauter, Carillo, or Crower rods
Rod length 5.590"
Crank end 2.166"
Pin end .866"

81-84 Celica 22R forged pistons
bore 94mm
Comp H. 1.533"
pin diameter .866
Comp Ratio 9.8-10.7

Darton MID Wet Sleeves For the Ford V8s
94mm bore (8 for $1,000.00)
2uz-fe heads

Stock Stroke 3.25" + rod length 5.744" + Compression height 1.366"= 10.33"

Modified using MKIV Supra rods and Celica forged pistons
Stroke 3.25" + rod length 5.590" + Compression height 1.533"= 10.373"

Final rod ratio = 1.72
Final displacement= 4.6L

This configuation would be MUCH less expensive than custom parts,as all of the parts are off the shelf.

The rod ratio is VERY good.

The most expensive process will be installing the Darton MID Wet sleeves at around 1000.00 USD


_______________________________________________________________

OR..............

1uz-fe w/2uz-Fe crank (linehoning required)
Stroked to 3.50"

Darton MID Wet Sleeves 96mm, Nissan VQ35DE

MKIV Supra rods 5.590"

VQ35DE Pistons
96mm bore
1.156 Compression height
Comp Ration 8.5- 11:1

Stock Stoke 3.25" + stock rod lengh 5.744" " Comp Height 1.336"= 10.33"


2uz-fe stroked 3.50" and MKIV forged rods + Nissan VQ35DE forged pistons Compression height.

3.50" + 5.590" + 1.166" = 10.256"

Final rod ratio = 1.69
Final displacement = 5.15L

This would be more expensive than the first option, in that you'd need a 2uz-fe crank, and line honing, and a stroked crank to 3.50". Factor in another 2000.00 USD to be safe.

Still a good rod ratio, good for 8.5K rev limits.

Great displacement at 5.1L


Now, can someone tell me if I am doing all of these calculations correctly???

Thanks guys,

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

Why not this option:

LS1 Darton MID with Tundra 3.31" crank and this will bring you up to 5.5 liters. You can use LS1 rods and possible LS1 pistons....

 

[cowboy bebop]

My concern would be that the LS1 Darton MID sleeves would require the heads coolant passages to the moved outwards. A 96mm Bore is not far off from the stock 94mm bore of the 2uzfe, so the heads coolant passages should remain intact, and the sleeves should fit fine in the 1uz-fe block.

Would a 4" bore be too much for the 1uz block??

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

I was going to get 2 Darton MID LS1 sleeves just for testing. The water passange will be intergrated along with the sleeves. I think getting a custom made head gaskets might be a little hard. I think this is a great for N/A Setup.

 

[cowboy bebop]

:bigeyes: Also, what I was thinking as a budget kit,

1uz-fe block, 2uz-fe crank


Eagle Toyota MKIV Supra forged rods,

Wiseco Toyota Dodge Neon SRT forged pistons, 87.5mm

3.31 stroke + 5.590 rod length + 1.400 Compression Height = 10.300"

This is very nearly the stock total of 10.33", and the SRT pistons come with a stock 8.8 CR

Final rod ratio : 1.69
Final displacement: 4.0L

Total cost would be less than 1200usd for all parts needed for a built bottom end!!!!!!!!!!

This may be perfect for the person on a budget that wants massive power through forced induction.

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

Couple of isssues need to taken in consideration:
*Toyota 22R rods might not fit the Nissan SR20DET pistons. Pin size, pin length and rod (Small end) thickness.

*22R rod big end might not fit (I think its too big) for the 1uzfe crank.

 

[cowboy bebop]

Ahhhh, correct sir. I'll amend the top kit to reflect the new measurements.

2uz-fe block,
1uz-fe crank
MKIV Supra rods
94mm 22r Pistons

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

I think the MID would be a great choice to increase cubic inch.

LS1 off the shelf sleeves (MID)
LS1 off the shelf pistons
LS1 (327) off the shelf rods

With Tundra 3.31" stroke, that will bring the 4.0 to 5.5 liter. I am not sure about the rod/stroke ratio.

 

[Pro]

so wait - that's using a 2UZ crank?

with the LS1 sleeves, pistons and the 327 (is that LS1? i thought the LS1 was 349) rods?

 

[Lextreme II]

Pro,

You sound interested. LS1 have many pistons, compression height and rods combination. U can basically get anything you want.

 

[JDMfantasy]

Lex, if you check out importperformanceparts.net, you will find that they make custom metal head gaskets for anything. Also, does this mean that you can use nearly any size darton sleeve within reason and the coolant passages will work that go to the heads?

 

[cowboy bebop]

I think that's what we're looking at now with the experimentations that Lex is doing. 4" bore is wild, and may overlap the heads coolant pasages. But there's no substitute for acutally doing the work and seeing what happens. Another alternative is a 1uz with a 94mm bore from the Ford 4.6L, and a 96mm bore from the 350z. Darton makes MID wet sleeves for these two applications also. With 2uz heads, these bores may work very well. Hopefully, a 4" bore will work equally as well.

Eric

 

[JDMfantasy]

I understand all that, but reguardless of the bore, how does darton ensure that the coolent chambers on the sleeves will run directly into the ones on the heads?

 

[Matt Skinner]

Would guess you would have to machine channels into the head and have special gaskets...

 

[Lextreme II]

Here is somthing to think about http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3415&page=2

cubic inch calcation

Mustang 4.6 liter is only 3.615". Stock 4.7 bore is 3.7" and stock 4.3 is 3.58" I dont think the Mustang MID would be a good upgrade. Anything less then 3.700" would not be worth the money and effort.

 

[cowboy bebop]

I think you're right on that acount Lex, a Mustang MID wouldn't be a a very good upgrade, but it would still be an affordable alternative to the 4L. The heads certainly wouldnt' have to be modified in it's case. But I'm going to hold out and see what results come from a 4 inch bore. If it's favorable, and the heads don't have to be modded, we just may have 5.8L motors all around . : )

Eric

 

[turboteener]

One thing that just occurred to me is the possibility of weakening the main bearing saddles and tunnel could occur if too much material were removed for the sleeve insert.