NA high com or turbo

[doctorchee]

NA high com or turbo ---decided on FI!!

Dear All

I am planning to put in a 1uzFE into a BMW318is.

The car mainly will be used for off road only. - 60% circuit, 30% drag, 10% drift.

I am not a professional and I am setting up the car for driving enjoyment only.

I am Singapore stationed in Bangkok. The labour cost is very cheap to mod car. Parts is generally cheap also.

Car set up:
E36 318is
fully lighten
weight - approxi 1200kg
full roll cage
upgrade brakes
upgraded suspension
17inch semi slick tyre
LSD

My question is, should I go NA or turbo. I been thinking for 1months and still can't decide. please give me some comments and advise.

for NA set up: what hp and result of 1/4 mile will I have for this?
High com piston - 12.5
fully port and polished head
high cams
injectors
rebuilt engine to turn to 9,000 RPM
2jzgte valve spring
2jzgte valve
exhaust - Y system - 2.5 inch into 3 inch straight through.
Wolf or EMS ecu
traction control
launch control
2 x skyline GTR fuel pump
V160 or V161 6speed manual gearbox
twin plate clutch 2jzfte
etc


For turbo set up: what hp and result of 1/4 mile will I have for this?
low com piston - 8.5
fully ported and polished head
engine target to turn to 7500
injectors
exhaust - dual 3 inch straight trhoguh
wolf or EMS ecu
traction control
launch control
antio lag control
KKK K27 or T3/T4 turbo x 2
1.5bar of boost
external wastegate
2 x external bosch fuel pump
V160 or V161 6speed manual gearbox
twin plate clutch 2jzfte
etc

Please advise and comments. Those with similar set up please adivse in great details and the problem I should look out if I go for either way.

Thank you

Regards
Derrick

 

[doey]

BMW 318is with a 1uz, style and balls, I want one.

I don't know if this accurate in the real world but it might give you some idea.
http://www.timmcamis.com/rear_horse.html

1200kg is 2640lbs

 

[doctorchee]

Thanks for your reply.

You are the only one that helps to reply. Thought I could get some good suggestion here.

Anyway, I have decide to go on FI. I will decom and turbo the 1uz, plus nos.

hope to get a 10sec car with that. my car final weight should be 1300kg.

Derrick

 

[Peewee]

People haven't replied because there is no real definite answer.
There are too many factors influencing the outcome.

And only you can decide whats better out of turbo vs NA.

 

[doctorchee]

Thanks for the reply.

I have decided to go FI.

I am interested in the Chevys rods and piston group buy. but unfortunately not the right time for me yet. I will need to buy the engine this week first.

I am interested in the V160 adpartor plate. but will hold on a while due to budget.

the engine I will be getting is 42,000 thai baht. so its should be around 1000usd.

anyway, from what I learned from the forums is the enigne should be Lexus sc400. front sump. but seems like getting it to run in original hardness and ecu have a problem. this is what I have read form the forums.

lastly, please advise the following:

1)if I will have problem to run the engine with orginal hardness and ecu.
2) how to wire the traction control
3) can I run the original hardness with ecu if I change to manual
4) which year and model should the enigne belong to? no vvti right?

thanks so much.

Regards
Derrick

 

[doctorchee]

btw, this is the car that the engine will go in. hope the engine bay will be big enough for the engine. but in anyway, I will make the engine goes in. U

currently, the car is strip for body works, like spot welding, roll cage etc..

just to share some of my progress and info.

All kind of comments and adivse is most welcomed.

I take any comments for improvement.

Thanks

Derrick

 

[doey]

Here's a thread that explains some of the model etc differences.
The Crown ecu and wiring harness might be the go if you want to use a manual box, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2648&highlight=crown+wiring

Somebody wrote this, but I forget who.:veryhappy
http://www.toymods.net/forums/showpost.php?p=56046&postcount=15

 

[doctorchee]

Thanks for your reply.

I remember I read an article in this forums saying LS400 ecu and harness may not run well with manual.

Anyway, can anyone help me to identify in the picture above which engine is it? I think its form LS400. can anyone help??

Thanks.

Derrick

Here's a thread that explains some of the model etc differences.
The Crown ecu and wiring harness might be the go if you want to use a manual box, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2648&highlight=crown+wiring

 

[Peewee]

Due to the Toyota badge and front sump, its a Celsior (Toyota Celsior = Lexus LS400)

 

[Pro]

leave the engine stock internally, fit an aftermarket computer, 7MGTE 440cc injectors and fabricate a turbo manifold to suit the turbo of your choice.

that will get you started and running reliably. i would only start looking at pulling it apart for strengthening when it breaks - that way you know that you NEED forged internals and you're not forking money out for things that you may not need for your power level.

the stock 1UZ can take over 1bar with good tune - so don't worry about the static CR just yet.

 

[doctorchee]

Thanks. Thats why I am thinking also.

procedure:

1) fully stock with auto - get it running first

2) stand alone ECU + manualised auto

3) V160 / V161

4) injectors upgrade

5) turbo

6) if engine don't break, head works, port and polish and 3 angle vavle

7) when engine breaks, do bottom end

Guys, if you have any kind of input, please throw in.


Thank you so much.

Regards
Derrick

leave the engine stock internally, fit an aftermarket computer, 7MGTE 440cc injectors and fabricate a turbo manifold to suit the turbo of your choice.

that will get you started and running reliably. i would only start looking at pulling it apart for strengthening when it breaks - that way you know that you NEED forged internals and you're not forking money out for things that you may not need for your power level.

the stock 1UZ can take over 1bar with good tune - so don't worry about the static CR just yet.

 

[Anaema]

Thanks. Thats why I am thinking also.

procedure:

1) fully stock with auto - get it running first

2) stand alone ECU + manualised auto

3) V160 / V161

4) injectors upgrade

5) turbo

6) if engine don't break, head works, port and polish and 3 angle vavle

7) when engine breaks, do bottom end

Guys, if you have any kind of input, please throw in.


Thank you so much.

Regards
Derrick

that makes sense until you get to about... the 7th step. a proken part could damage the block to an irrepairable level. i recommend that you not wait for the bottom end to break before switching to forged internals, thats just stupid. might save money, but its still stupid. not to mention how much time you will waste pulling the parts or the whole block doing those steps, when you could just get it done all at once.

 

[doctorchee]

Thanks for your reply.



I will take note of it.

that makes sense until you get to about... the 7th step. a proken part could damage the block to an irrepairable level. i recommend that you not wait for the bottom end to break before switching to forged internals, thats just stupid. might save money, but its still stupid. not to mention how much time you will waste pulling the parts or the whole block doing those steps, when you could just get it done all at once.

 

[Pro]

but the 1UZ blocks are so cheap it's not really a worry.

it's cheaper to break a block than fork out for forged everything that you may not need, isn't it?

 

[doctorchee]

I think the stock bottom should be able to handle well with good tunning.

Personally, I feel most of the time, the bottom end fails because of bad tunning or bad support like, oil, cooling systems etc.

also, I am not sure the stock engine wiring have "knock sensor". so I could try to wire to a LED to show knocking present before block fails. is this possible? this is my own idea. I have not seen anyone doing this yet.

In addition, while doing tunning (when I install stand alone) , we should be able to detect knocking when pushing up the boost or tunning. As such, should be safe.

In short, I will try to detect, knocking, proper air/fuel, exhaust temp, etc while pushing the engine for more hp. If all the temp, etc, is in normal operation range, things should not fails. I will of course push not to 100% limit but around 90%.

I don't have big wallet, so I will be very careful.

Cheers

but the 1UZ blocks are so cheap it's not really a worry.

it's cheaper to break a block than fork out for forged everything that you may not need, isn't it?

 

[MaxPower]

also, I am not sure the stock engine wiring have "knock sensor". so I could try to wire to a LED to show knocking present before block fails. is this possible? this is my own idea. I have not seen anyone doing this yet.

The knock sensor on its own is just a piezo microphone and really cant show you any useful info using just an LED. There are many noises happening inside the engine while its running so the knock sensor is connected to an amplifier and bandpass filter. The filter is tuned to the resonant freq of the knock, the tuned freq is mainly dependant on bore size and is usually in the high 3KHz range for your average passenger car engine. There are IC's now that you can buy that have variable frequency filters and amplifiers, u use a microcontroller to program it and it sets a pin high or low (i forget now) during knock. They are fairly expensive but work well.

I have seen a very primitive way of detecting knock that involves a set of ear muffs, some plastic tubing and a ring terminal clamped to the end. The ring terminal is bolted to the engine block and the tube goes into the ear muffs. Can clearly hear knocking

In short, I will try to detect, knocking, proper air/fuel, exhaust temp, etc while pushing the engine for more hp. If all the temp, etc, is in normal operation range, things should not fails. I will of course push not to 100% limit but around 90%.

Leaving AFR alone and just increasing spark advance will show a reduction in EGTs, even when advancing to the point of knock. During knock cylinder head temps (CHTs) increase due to the extra energy being absorbed by the pistons and heads. So seeing a fall in EGTs followed by rise in CHTs can indicate knocking.

 

[doctorchee]

Thank you so much for the information.

Its something very useful for me to learn.

Yes, I have seen tunner using the "doctor type" of ear pc connected to block to listen for knock.

Regards

 

[doctorchee]

Dear All

As a matter of fact, the engine which I brought have some big mechanical problem. As such, I have went ahead with the project with Nissan VH41DE instead.

Nice to be in this forums.

Lastly, just like to share my reasons for choosing the VH41De over 1UZFE:

1) avialbility - in Bangkok, I can't find any good 1UZFE at reasonable price. The nissan does not have much too. Except I just happen to find a nice and clean nissan engine at a cheap price.

2) Head flow - I choose the VH41DE is becuase of its much better headflow compare to 1UZFE

3) Bottom - I am not sure, but I heard its as strong as the 1UZ

4) Ignition - I prefer the VH41De direct ignition over 1UZ distributor type

5) engine size - the 1uz is definately more compact compare to VH. however, the VH41 is the smallest in the VH family and its available. It fits in also. so I choose it.



Thats about all. Its all the reason why I have choose the VH over 1UZ. Mainly its because in Bangkok, its almost impossible to get a good UZ.

I hope above information will be good for others to choose between the 2 best V8s around. As they are so good in many different ways and making a decision between them is such a headache.



Thanks

Regards

Derrick