Learning About Australia

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
jibbby,

those planes were not piloted.

you have to ask yourself - you, personally, with no training, could possibly bank a 767, while accelerating and controlling descent, aim said 767 into a space 50m wide?

if not, then how did 2 pilots with no commecial jet liner experience manage to put those plans into a pair of towers 50m wide? there is a great CHASM of difference between a twin engine cessna, that they were supposed to have trained in, and a 767.
A slight over reaction don't you think? Sorry to tell you but most pilots nowadays spend more time in a simulator than in a real plane before they fly anything big.

that is my basis for there being a fallacy behind the Iraq war. no politics, no conspiracies here (but there are) - just cold hard facts.
Cold hard facts that can be twisted to suit the person sprouting them.

Kim Jog Il detonated a nuclear device underground - as being a "rogue state" - and nothing was done. 4 arabs fly a plane into a pair of buildings and it's worth a full scale war and invasion?
France detonated more than one near Australia and what did we do? In reality SFA, sure we said "please dont do this near us" but what good was that. Come on lets not pull the he's a good guy we wont do nothing, he's a bad guy lets invade trick. North Lorea is also officially of the "bad guy" lists to now.

What about Mugabe? where is the US to help those poor innocent souls trying to vote for democracy? (no oil..)
You have no understanding of the issues of Africa do you?
1st if any western power starts telling an African nation (especially one controlled by the native peoples) what to do the world screams colonialism.
2nd there is the African Union which was setup to deal with this type of thing but Africa is still a very tribal continent which means any actions made by one nation (tribe basically) against another to stop a despot can cause problems that 50 years down the track will come back and bite them harder than the initial action.

What about Castro? he was a dictator and nearly brought the world into full scale nuclear war in the 50s and 60s. (oh that's right - he allowed the cocaine to flow thru to puerto rico and into florida - lets not forget guantanamo either).
Lol, blame Castro for nearly bringing the world to Nuclear war, what a joke. Seriously who is the only country that has ever used nukes in anger? thats right America, so please don't jump on the Castro was a bad ass based on the Nuke threat.

What about the poor people opressed under the tribal heirachy on Diego Garcia? (That deserved a takeover, invasion and the construction of a military base smack bang in the middle of the pacific, right?)
Methinks you have an issue with the US but are mindful not to mention Britains role in many things. It was Britain afterall who refused native title to the peoples of the Attol and refused to let hem return, even today this is being dealt with in the British High Courts.

Funny that the CIA organised the rise to power of Saddam Hussein himself. They betrayed the Kurds. Richard Helms, ex CIA director and PROVEN nazi sympathiser (he helped General Gehlen, nazi spymaster, set up an organisation INSIDE the OSS (now CIA) to make use of their ability to infiltrate Eastern Europe) was at the time Director for Plans when he organised to coup in 1963 to put the Ba'ath party into power.
You cannot solely blame America for that, that was the Western world that did that. It needed an ally so the West allowed it to occur.

What about the fact that the taliban were "installed" by the CIA along with Osama Bin Laden (thanks to Bush/binLaden ties to do with Halliburton) in a mass coup that ABDULLAH D AFGHAN talks of, to form the Mujahideen and keep the Russians at bay when they tried to invade? The russians wanted the opium trade for black market money to further fund their arms race. Funny now the US has invaded Afghanistan just before Iraq to control what market to fund what now....?

there's only 1 word for this - bullsh1t.
wow and I thought I had a bad attitude towards American military and political interference.
 
Wow, I don't know how to respond to all this anti America garbage... Some of you guys really think America and it's leaders are basically the anti-christs... I didn't know it was that bad!!! WOW... Now, I am not going to say God Bless America or America is the best but I will say guys, we are not that bad, I got family in the military, A parent that works at a classified goverment job at the Rand Corportion (research and development) here in California... I am very confident you Aaron are wrong about your insites and beliefs about America and 9/11... Aaron I like you but I gotta disagree with 100% on this my brother....

Pro - on 9/11, I've seen all the conspiracy theories that you speak of, I've watched every show possible on 9/11, cleanup on 9/11, spoke to people involved in the tragedy first hand, and lastly I too was curiously skeptic until digging deep and weighing in all the facts...IT WAS ALL LEGIT...... Even the Pentagon crash where they couldn't find alot of wreckage.. The simatanious explosions that appeared to go down the twins while it collapsed... Etc.. Etc..

I simply must say it was what it was... If I thought it was for an agenda to start the war I would say so too... This was not a government plan, plot, conspiracy, etc...no nukes underground either.. Haven't heard that one yet....Underground nukes secretly planted and detonated in New York city... Come on that's just crazy!!!

Secondly, I can't believe our government and our President would not allow the mercifuless killing of 5000 of our own people in our homeland for a war agenda. Secretly plan and have commercial airliners fly into the heart of New York city and suicide crash into buildings.....The Pentagon too whom is government I might ad you, etc.. No way pal... American, is not that dark, no way!!!!! If America was that bad and evil, I would hate America too and so would many many other American citizens.. Especially New York residents...

I am skeptic at times about the motives of our leaders as I stated earlier, but never could buy any of those 9/11 conspiracy theories... Bush is not the devil and either was his dad, maybe a bad president or two but not a murderer at that scale...That would make him no better then Saddam and Bin Laden... I can't believe that and won't... Take this from an American that sees all this crap first hand as stays very informed and not thru a television set half way across the world... Ask us Americans first hand how it really is and we will tell you straight up.... Not just me either...

I would like to think my country and it's people are based on good morals, come to the aid of other countries in need just like you Australians would, come and send aid to foreign countries in desperate need that experience natural disasters, etc.. I don't think we are a mongrul that goes to war and takes over lands for foreign oil and claim them as ours...American citizens wouldn't go for that period and either would the UN...

Come on fellas show us some love.....Were the big power and sometimes the bully of the past but not as bad as some of these posts claim..
 
I can't believe our government and our President would not allow the mercifuless killing of 5000 of our own people

Typo error in last post...

I can't believe our governement and our President would allow the mercifuless killing of 5000 of our own people in New York city...

Pro - What about the plane that went down in the feilds? Where was that headed for and failed?...People were on cell phones too on those planes.. What reports are some of you guys being fed in other countries? One has to wonder.......
 
Politics gota love it!
Can we start on religon next!
Hang on Ill change the subject

Whats it like to live in a city that snows? apart from being cold, does make it hard do get to work, do you use salt like in uk?or dont get much black ice
Canberra the only one city close here to having snow in the streets
 
snow is the worst, here they spray salt and gravel which causes your fenders to rust and periodically the sand n gravel flys up from the guy's tires infront of you and chips your windshield, also RWD makes driving in snow a challenge. Lots of accidents n fender benders happen when it first snows becuz ppl are not used to driving in it. Also you have to wake up early to scrape the ice n snow off your windshield. Thanks for reminding me of whats to come in a few months lol.
Do you tornadoes in Aus? Recently we had a couple here in the midwest. One Tornado took part of the roof off a Walmart here.
 
Shallis2 - I appologise, I hate talking politics and religion because it never goes anywhere... My bad, I should have known better, I usually don't do that.......

So let's try religion instead - Well I am back sliding Christian by nature that believes that Jesus is the bomb, and I go to church on Sundays sometimes when I am not watching sports and getting wasted....and I guess I am trying to buy into this blind faith thing but as we all should know, nothings for sure until we all die and find out.... and.....bla bla bla...

So like Shallis2 asked, how's living in that snow in Australia?
 
Jibby.. Don't take it too seriously..

Yes I saw near new Honda's up north with almost no guards / fenders .. I assume salt is the cause..We don't have double insulation on our floors in our houses just carpet over concrete slab or wood flooring..Most our roofs here have tiles and insulation above ceiling to keep HEAT out..
In western Australia some houses are built under ground, the warmth stays the same all year round.. If you saw OCC on Discovery where they visited Australia.. There plenty of flies out west also...
 
it's not anti-american garbage - it's anti rockerfeller/kennedy/bush NWO garbage. google FEMA camps.

A slight over reaction don't you think? Sorry to tell you but most pilots nowadays spend more time in a simulator than in a real plane before they fly anything big.

but those pilots didn't. they went to flight school. they flew twin engined cessnas and light aircraft. they are miles away from a 767. if most polits nowadays spend hours in front of a simulator, then why hadn't the hijackers? they had no knowledge of how to fly a 767. period.

even youtube has videos of declassified remote plane tests.

to sit there and pick holes in a argument without picking holes in the subject itself is just pedantic and pointless, and while i'm certainly not attacking your intelligence there, you must understand that if you too know of these things then we really might be arguing symantics.

i am aware of the Diego Garcia argument. my apoligies for not saying the UK as well - but you still would have got your back up if i had, yes?

i will PM you re Mugabe - it's too long to get into here.

Shallis2 - i am a practising and preaching athiest which i feel allows me to explore both sides of the coin equally. debating religion is like debating which icecream flavour is better. at the end of the day, it's still icecream.
---------------

and i like snow. first snow i ever saw (and only snow) was in the french alps coming into Andorra. never seen washing powder fall fromt he sky before. it was magical and a bit eerie with how still everything was. i could hear cows i couldn't see from over the hills. i could hear my heart beating in my own chest. truly incredible.
 
it's not anti-american garbage - it's anti rockerfeller/kennedy/bush NWO garbage. google FEMA camps.
You forgot to mention Clinton and a few others.

but those pilots didn't. they went to flight school. they flew twin engined cessnas and light aircraft. they are miles away from a 767. if most polits nowadays spend hours in front of a simulator, then why hadn't the hijackers? they had no knowledge of how to fly a 767. period.
No person has any knowledge of how to fly a 767 until they actually get in the seat and do it. Sorry but your entire discussion looks like you have a real big beef with America, I know I pick holes with alot of their stuff but I wont attack them without cause which is what it looks to alot of peple that you are doing.

even youtube has videos of declassified remote plane tests.
Youtube also has porn and a whole heap of crap, I really don't think you could claim its an authority on anything just cause it has videos of remote plane tests.

to sit there and pick holes in a argument without picking holes in the subject itself is just pedantic and pointless, and while i'm certainly not attacking your intelligence there, you must understand that if you too know of these things then we really might be arguing symantics.
I pick holes in flawed reasoning not subjects. I can see both sides of nearly every arguement but it doesn't mean I agree with either. My issue here is you have gone on a rant and have been highly inacurate with many if not all of your statements. One of the last things you said was Aussies see through BS, well I'm picking you on yours so please don't get $h1tty with me over it.

i am aware of the Diego Garcia argument. my apoligies for not saying the UK as well - but you still would have got your back up if i had, yes?
My back isn't up, I am merely calling BS on your inacurate statements.

i will PM you re Mugabe - it's too long to get into here.
I look forward to a lesson regarding African politics.

Shallis2 - i am a practising and preaching athiest which i feel allows me to explore both sides of the coin equally. debating religion is like debating which icecream flavour is better. at the end of the day, it's still icecream.
Regardless of your belief system your an adult so you should be able to discuss any arguement from both sides. Thats how I see it anyway.

and i like snow. first snow i ever saw (and only snow) was in the french alps coming into Andorra. never seen washing powder fall fromt he sky before. it was magical and a bit eerie with how still everything was. i could hear cows i couldn't see from over the hills. i could hear my heart beating in my own chest. truly incredible.
Just commenting on snow from a personal pov, I dislike it, went to Bathurst one year in the early 1990s and stayed at Blayney, it snowed all night and the next day the person I was with wanted to go for a walk in the snow down the main street. Well it was over knee deep and I froze even with multiple layers on that are for things like that. I dislike the cold immensly and that is why my property is on the market so I can move to Qld somwhere around or north of Bundy.
 
how exactly are my arguments inaccurate? if you want me to be more exact i can be - but it would take up pages upon pages of history lessons, previous examples. in essence, i would have to write a few books to be perfectly accurate.

not being exact is one thing, but to call it BS is something else entirely. if you're raising the BS flag, then post your argument against; instead of - again - judicious use of the quote button and picking holes in an argument.

give ME a history lesson and your reasoning as to HOW i was inaccurate and WHY it's all BS.

now!
 
i am a practising and preaching atheist

Hey, I wasn't done with the religion thing yet fellas. Yipes....


I can respect an atheists point of view over a religous fanatic's point of view and that's for sure, but being an atheist in my opinion is having a religious void without any hope at all after death.. For me personally that is kinda depressing in itself to think about that........I sure hope everything I have learned in life and on this forum is gonna carry over to a next life and not go to waste after I die? Man that would really suck....

So I say to you Pro, is it better to believe in something (any religion) and when you pass on you find out there is no creator? Or is good not to believe in anything at all then actually meet your creator with a dumb look on your face? Tough call... I say it's always better to believe in something rather then nothing just incase...

Besides me thinks, "Good religion in moderation" teaches you good morals as a punk kid and usually gives most adults a check and balance on their own morals which is good for society...Also gives hope of something after death other then just blackness and that's it, game over...:yikes:

Gotta believe...Gotta keep hope alive...Done preaching...Now shoot me please...:slomo:


PS..Xr8tt, thanks for the good advise....


Curious are most Australians Atheist? The reason I ask that is because one of your major cities is named "Darwin" if I am not mistaken..... That leads me to believe that your founding forefathers must have really bought into the Evolution theory over the creator theory..... Just a wild guess on my part, did I hit pay dirt on that?
 
that's a good point there jibbby re: Darwin - certainly something i'd never thought of before...!

science and creation are both searching for our origins - it's like philosophical archaeology.

i don't have faith, jibbby. i don't have faith in anyone or anything but myself. praying ain't gonna change a personal situation. what changes a personal situation is the mindset that YOU can change it.

that said, i envy people with faith. i envy the ability to be able to "let go" of the reigns a bit. me? i'm a bit of a control freak, and i think it stems from my lack of faith.

i certainly won't picket outside churches any time soon, but i just can't see the creationist view ever being a solid argument, or the idea that something created us as we are at present.

not that the creationalist argument is wrong - far from it as i have no proof. but then i have no proof that god doesn't exist either.
 
One has to wonder about a spiratural realm, no Aaron?... Just look at all the haunted house and ghost stories that claim to be true on your TV set thru out the years....Ha Ha... Ever see the ghost hunters show and or others? The air going cold kinda thing in the dark cellar or attic? You know the energy read gadgets going off the chart sorta thing when a spiratual presence is around?... How about those tv specials on super natural events that occurred on the Discovery channel or something to that effect? How about those haunted castle stories you've heard or read about? Hair rising on the back of your neck sorta experience, how about the out of body experiences being real and not just bad neurons firing? Light at the end of the tunnel just possibilty? How about experiences and I mean anything beyond the norm, anything? Certainly there must be something more then just black and white, gravity and substance Aaron... Even a scientific mind must ponder on all this?

If I had to guess I would say there is something of spiritual realm of some sort, I have felt it or sensed it at some point in my life, maybe an inner soul of some sorts type of thing....... I have never seen a ghost though, but all those stories and shows, friends and or strangers I've met that simply said they have seen a ghost, news reports, proclaimed miracles that happened, supernatural events reported thruout the years? etc...you can't tell me all of it is hogwash? Pro your basically saying that everything is 100% BS unless there is a scientific explaination behind it..That's a hard pill to swallow.... Come to think of it I think I feel something right now out of the norm but it could just be my beer buzz, not sure matey....:friday:

Please excuse me now as I must become one with the universe and start chanting and light in ensense or something...:hypnotized:
 
how exactly are my arguments inaccurate? if you want me to be more exact i can be - but it would take up pages upon pages of history lessons, previous examples. in essence, i would have to write a few books to be perfectly accurate.

not being exact is one thing, but to call it BS is something else entirely. if you're raising the BS flag, then post your argument against; instead of - again - judicious use of the quote button and picking holes in an argument.

give ME a history lesson and your reasoning as to HOW i was inaccurate and WHY it's all BS.

now!
Oh we do have a chippie on our shoulder don't we?

I'll give you one example and that should be enough even for someone of no faith in anything but yourself. You left out Britain's role in Diego Garcia and blamed it all on America, you even admitted to doing it, now if that is not inaccurate then what is? Now if you can be inaccurate like that then how can you have faith in your own reasoning skills? unless of course you have an attitude when it comes to America and you are deliberately vague and/or inaccurate for some reason known only unto yourself!

P.S. I am still waiting for the PM on Mugabe.
 
Besides me thinks, "Good religion in moderation" teaches you good morals as a punk kid and usually gives most adults a check and balance on their own morals which is good for society...

Good religion in moderation? where do i find one of those ;-) Morals come from societal values, both taught and adsorbed....i don't see religions teaching much at all? lots of preaching, rules and limitations though?
 
Good religion in moderation? where do i find one of those ;-) Morals come from societal values, both taught and adsorbed....i don't see religions teaching much at all? lots of preaching, rules and limitations though?
Define religion! Religion is merely a way of life. Communism and Capitalism can be and are religions to many people. Being a Jedi is a religion to many people, so are cult followings of movies and/or music. These things are part of society and therefore have an impact on a societies morals. To say religion is preaching, rules and limitations does not look into religion of any sort properly and leaves out the basics of the actual religions we are apparently now discussing.
 
whoops what have i done! now its religion!LOL
Im enjoying this discussion.
We have to go looking for snow as the cities are built on the coast line.
P,s I like Americans just not their politicians,,,, hang on i dont like any politicians!
 
Define religion! Religion is merely a way of life. Communism and Capitalism can be and are religions to many people. Being a Jedi is a religion to many people, so are cult followings of movies and/or music. These things are part of society and therefore have an impact on a societies morals. To say religion is preaching, rules and limitations does not look into religion of any sort properly and leaves out the basics of the actual religions we are apparently now discussing.

Not in my book mate. A religion is an organised institution, albeit a spiritual one (supposedly)....and they require that you take their articles on 'faith'. Even the church of scientology (oxymoron if ever there was one) relies on faith as it's foundation. However, i didn't say they don't impact on societal morals, they clearly do and depressingly, most often in a negative way.

Whatever, as you say i am not looking into the whole issue of religion properly, nor am i about to as their are a zillion books on the subject and a randomly wandering thread on an automotive forum is hardly likely to add anything of startling value to the topic :)
 
Not in my book mate. A religion is an organised institution, albeit a spiritual one (supposedly)....and they require that you take their articles on 'faith'. Even the church of scientology (oxymoron if ever there was one) relies on faith as it's foundation. However, i didn't say they don't impact on societal morals, they clearly do and depressingly, most often in a negative way.
And that is where my Communism example fits perfectly into your definition. Communism is an organised institution, the USSR, the Peoples Republic of China, etc. etc. all required that you as an individual tow their line and that to do anything you had to take their articles (granted not of faith but certainly of the "common good").

You said you dont see religion teaching much at all and that is where I disagree with you. Religion in its various forms teaches alot of things (and this includes things such as Communism and Capitalism), just because you dont like what you percieve religion to be doesn't mean it doesn't teach much. How does teaching respect, the basis of Christianity and Islam (not only those two but also the various faiths of the far east and even Bahai') just incase you didn't know, have a negative impact on the world. How does teaching equality (NT Christianity, Communism) have a negative impact of the world. Maybe if people had more respect and treated everyone else as equals we wouldn't have the probs we do today. Just a thought or two for you to ponder.
 


Top