Fuel rail return

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nzsimon

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Auckland NZ
Do I have to have one ? It would make life so much easier if I could delete it somehow
I have used the original Crown in tank fuel pump in my swap and have just started plumbing and wiring the engine
It occurs it would save me a lot of hassle if I could do without the return line
 
If you really dont want to use the return line you can use a pump and regulator near the tank, many new OEM apps now use a return-less system. There are advantages to this however it is probably easier to just use the standard regulator and add a return line. Without a return line or regulator the fuel pressures will be way too high and the injectors will go static open.
 
Simon, as others have stated without the return line your fuel pressure will be unregulated.
Here is the basics of why it wont work.
Injectors in EFI engines work by opening and closing (pulsing) and the period of time that they open and close for is the duty cycle.
Your engine management system whether factory or aftermarket needs to be able to calculate the amount of fuel going into the engine to keep the AFR's correct.
It manages this by knowing how much fuel is in one pulse of the injector and it relies on that pulse always containing the same amount of fuel.
It measures the air volume by either map or maf and then matches the fuel requirement to get the right ratios.
Then the O2 sensor relays back how well the operation went.
If you don't maintain constant fuel pressure then that pulse by the injector may contain more or less fuel than the management system is expecting.
It is the variation that is the problem, so no it wont work.
There are do's and donts with efi and this is definately a dont.
Factory management systems can generally cope with a few changes to the fuel system for example a slight increase in injector size.
Now each pulse contains more fuel because of the larger orrifice in the bigger injector but again it is constant.
This is when the system will relearn and trim the duty cycle until it once again has acceptable AFR's.
The same can be said for increasing fuel pressure to the injectors.
If the injectors see higher pressure then they will deliver more fuel per pulse, but once again it is constant and the management system will compensate for it again by trimming duty cycle.
Cheers
tRev
 

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Another issue is fuel boiling in the fuel rails. The fuel needs to be constantly flowing throught the rails and back to the tank for cooling purposes.

Without this flow the fuel would boil and vapourise and car will stop.

Cheers.
 

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half a lexus

Ok but I am not using the factory ECU ( link) nor am I using the factory throttle bodies I have 8 and no vacumn (sp?) port to plump it into

not using the o2 sensors either

What does it need will vac from one runner do ?
 
cool car. iv seen it on here before and assumed it was an aussie ride coz of the aussie(?) throttle body setup. i really like your detailing and rims. some of the stuff iv done is based on what i seen on your car. awesome work.
as stated above, some new cars run a returnless fuel system (i think maybe new commodores do, among others) and fuel pressure is controlled by a variable speed fuel pump. a link wont do this, but you could possibly setup your own setup if you had an electronic controller that either ran the pump at some voltage relative to engine speed, or that controlled it relative to the target fuel pressure. an easier setup would be to run a fuel pump off the motor, like some drag cars do.
i am definitely not an expert in this area so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. personally id just run a return line and be done with it. saves alot of hassle.
another option is to have a surge tank in or near the engine bay, fed by the primary fuel pump, then you have a very short feed line from that to the engine, and consequently also a very short return line to the surge tank. all you'd need is a cutout switch to the primary pump when the tank is full so it doesnt try to pump more fuel to the full surge tank. they had a setup similar to this on 'banzai' crx off the high octane dvds.
by the way, hows the car looking now? almost done? where are you based?
 
I solved the problem I drilled a 3/16 hole in one of the runners and araldited a piece of beake line tube in then just a simple piece of rubber line feeds the vac to the release valve

The actual fuel return that's a different story with some gentle rebending I can get it to run under the injection instead of all over it much prettier
 
I would not like to trust glue with anything to do with fuel in an engine bay.
And yeh, I think it tastes great.
 
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if u are runnin an aftermarket ecu and an adjustable fuel pressure reg u dont really need a vac line to it

all it does is adjust fuel pressure when there is vac there

just set it to around 40 psi fuel pressure then tune the aftermarket ecu to suit

settin uup a returnless fuel system is piss easy

just fit the press reg just outside the tank

i have done afew of these setups when workin on gen 3 holden engines

and the new ford quad cam v8s

and since u have an open engine bay u should not have many probs with fuel rail heatin up the fuel
 
The newer Lexus has returnless line...... I wounder what make the newer models would work on returnless. Perhaps ecu and FPR or PUMP.
 
Araldite can't be used in a situation where it will get hot. When it heats up it goes soft.

I'd be inclined to ude a aluminium reinforced expoxy. You can buy at marine stores in a tube. You mix the 2 part product and it will set hard enough to drill or tap.
 
With vac coming from only 1 runner the fuel pressure will jump all over the place. You only get vac every 2nd revolution when that cylinder is on the intake stroke so you'd probably be better off not hooking it up.
 
what it looks like now

I hear what you are saying about thye araldite getting soft but I think it will be ok it is only an intake runner and it is suspended well above the block I went over it with JB weld to make it stronger

It is an interferance fit any way

here is a pic of what it looks like today
 


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