Dual Fueling a 1UZFE with LPG

[YBHVE4]

as topic states.....any precautions I should take?

thanks

 

[cribbj]

What's your 2nd fuel going to be? Methanol, ethanol, LPG, etc.?

 

[YBHVE4]

I will be running LPG

 

[jibbby]

What's LPG never heard of it? I run a second fuel source called Nitrous... Nitrous you can run directly into the throttle body which is called a dry system or you can bridge the fuel lines which is then called a wet system..I also had to run a high volume fuel pump to accomadate the fuel mix and fuel output...

Do you combine LPG with petrol or do you run the fuels independantly at different times?...

Sorry for the stupid questions, I am just trying to learn...

All irrevelant but thought I would post anyway...

 

[jibbby]

Thanks LEX that thread really covers it...

LPG fuel sounds alot like a kind of High Octane Diesel fuel or something...It burns slower but this LPG fuel has a higher then normal octane rating then what you would find in normal petrol gas and or Diesel fuels..... Thats an interesting fuel alternative..

I wonder how much it costs? I guess I can google that....

 

[Tony94S4]

not sure exactly how propane works
but looks like if you are using forced
induction you can up the boost and
get lots of power safely with propane
injection like
Johan did with his extreme Lotus esprit

 

[edz]

LPG dual fuel issues

as topic states.....any precautions I should take?

thanks

My experience with dual fuel is that it is always a compromise. When it was fitted to my Ford 6 cylinder, the lowdown 'smoke the tyres easily - off the line' torque dissapeared. I have a friend who tows a caravan and complained of the same thing, had to switch to petrol in hilly areas. LPG fuel usage is higher, however the cost is $0.53 per litre instead of $1.38 for petrol. I am talking 'vapour' lpg systems here where the liquid is heated and turned back to a gas and drawn in as a vapour. The injected lpg systems are better, giving good torque and better fuel economy than Petrol (Gas for the USA) however cost is double and they won't work in cold temperatures as the bottle pressure drops (search princo on the forum).

With factory fitted dual fuel systems (ala Ford Falcon) they start on petrol, and switch to LPG under normal driving. I have heard they switch to petrol under load to give you the extra bit of power/torque you lose on lpg to give you the best of both worlds.

The LPG is a mix of propane and butane and the ratio varies across Australia and across different brands, you notice a little bit of difference in power and economy sometimes. LPG likes/handles more ignition timing because it burns slower (great for FI), but needs a good ignition system or you get backfires with shockwaves that break things. This is why it's not recommended on late model cars with plastic intake manifolds. LPG on its own with a correctly setup ignition and cam is great and will give good economy (and cheap fillups).

Dual fuel carby setups - need regular running or sitting overnight with fuel in the bowl once a month or they eventually have the gaskets dry out (unless you are lucky to have a carby with rubber gaskets like my Nissan petrol).

Dual Fuel Petrol Injected systems need to be run on petrol for at least 10% of their time (40km evey 400km) otherwise the injectors can dry out and play up, and the fuel pump can also die.

Long and short, dual fuel is good for the family wagon runaround, but for performance use, straight lpg or petrol!

I'm attempting turbos and straight LPG.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[YBHVE4]

thanks head edz for the info.

Well its my daily driver and has dual fuel at the moment so I would like to keep it that way. Im doing the conversion so i have a little more grunt and when flicked to petrol a hel of alot more then the v6. also, i was told that fuel economy will improve compared to my v6 that i would have to push harder.

fingers crossed anyways and i hope that i wont have to many issues with my conversion.

thanks again

 

[stormtrooper]

Sorry to disagree but a few points to calirify.

YBHVE4 My experience with dual fuel is that it is always a compromise. When it was fitted to my Ford 6 cylinder, the lowdown 'smoke the tyres easily - off the line' torque dissapeared. I have a friend who tows a caravan and complained of the same thing, had to switch to petrol in hilly areas. LPG fuel usage is higher, however the cost is $0.53 per litre instead of $1.38 for petrol. I am talking 'vapour' lpg systems here where the liquid is heated and turned back to a gas and drawn in as a vapour. The injected lpg systems are better, giving good torque and better fuel economy than Petrol (Gas for the USA) however cost is double and they won't work in cold temperatures as the bottle pressure drops (search princo on the forum).

This issue is a setup problem. I run a GasResearch system and there is NO noticable diffence in low down Torque at all and I live on the western side of the Great Divide tow a horse float and a caravan regularly. If you use a standard IMPCO or OHG type setup you will have issues because their setup is very limited.

With factory fitted dual fuel systems (ala Ford Falcon) they start on petrol, and switch to LPG under normal driving. I have heard they switch to petrol under load to give you the extra bit of power/torque you lose on lpg to give you the best of both worlds.

Check out the Ford LPG only system it is a very good system and there are again no drastic noticeable issues with it.

The LPG is a mix of propane and butane and the ratio varies across Australia and across different brands, you notice a little bit of difference in power and economy sometimes. LPG likes/handles more ignition timing because it burns slower (great for FI), but needs a good ignition system or you get backfires with shockwaves that break things. This is why it's not recommended on late model cars with plastic intake manifolds. LPG on its own with a correctly setup ignition and cam is great and will give good economy (and cheap fillups).

My old 3F 4 litre 6 cylinder only had a points system and there were no problems with Back Fires at all. Furthermore most of the problems associated with LPG quality is actually the quality of the maintenance of the vehicle it is running on. Yes there is regional variance with LPG in Australia but it isn't as big as people think. There is a government cap on how much Butane can be in LPG.

Dual fuel carby setups - need regular running or sitting overnight with fuel in the bowl once a month or they eventually have the gaskets dry out (unless you are lucky to have a carby with rubber gaskets like my Nissan petrol).

Yes this is a good idea. Start the car on Petrol and when you go to stop it each time just switch back over to petrol and refill the carby bowl.

Dual Fuel Petrol Injected systems need to be run on petrol for at least 10% of their time (40km evey 400km) otherwise the injectors can dry out and play up, and the fuel pump can also die.

No, all you need to do is make the fuel injectors relay switchable via the LPG switch. This in turn allows the fuel pump to run occasionally as the ECU will still control it and it keeps the injectors cool and fuel pressure up for when you switch back over meaning there is no lag time when changing fuels.

Long and short, dual fuel is good for the family wagon runarround, but for performance use, straight lpg or petrol!

I have a duel fuel setup and as I have said there is no noticeable difference in performance and my engine is a HSV v8 in a troopcarrier running a Gas Research system that is setup properly. The idea is to use the best system you can to get the best performance you can. Use "old tech" systems and you will get 'old tech" performance.

 

[HoBi]

Not reallyadding anything much that isn't already stated, but LPG as a stand alone fuel will get you great results.

get it setup by a good installer and you won't have an issue. If you can get straight LPG (BBQ gas-no Butane) you will really notice the difference!

If you see a Kleenheat Gas truck delivering LPG to a servo, filling up their BBQ gas cylinder, then Filling up the auto gas tank, make that your regular servo.. they are putting in straight propane (WA only gets straight propane autogas). For any melbourne people, Supagas on the hume highway, near ford, sell straight propane at the autogas bowser.

Straight propane is cleaner burning and doesn't leave any deposits in your system, and gives better power and torque..