All parts considered for a turbo...

[JustenGT8]

Yeah fair enough Jibby. Not like you are a newby so i was a bit surprised at such a broad question...then the floodgates cracked open a bit. Have to set a good example for the newbie's mate Too often they dream of what might be and think the rest of just love fuelling their wish list

Anyways, to stop hijacking your thread with my whinge and back on topic. Bugdet is your answer really. There are multiple options for all your needs and as long as they match the intended use (more detail on your needs would help too) you can go as low cost or top shelf as you want.

A hp target is too loose as well. I could build you a 450hp at the wheels engine that'll dyno that every time and be a great reliable streeter...1st time you take it to the circuit though it'll go bang. Spend x10 and you'll have the same hp but it would be bullet proof.

The list that makes my car such a good all round performer is way longer than my arm Alot of that list is on threads here. Happy to offer advice on specifics which is of course one of the main reasons we are all here

 

[jibbby]

Yeah I am not a newby to this forum, but am a newby to Turbo setups...I know superchargers, Nos, engine builds, tranny builds, etc...etc.. Turbo's I am just now getting into the specifics...Never liked turbo's but I can clearly see they have come a long way in 10-15 years since I toyed with them in years past...

Also, it apears that turbo charging the 1uz-fe engines in the sc400's is the best way to go....Chargers are limited in power and space, etc...Nos is Nos, not practical.....Turbo's seem to be the best choice. Also I can see that with the V8 1uz-fe motors in combination with a strong torque converter, off the line power will not be compromised too much with the turbo lag from idle.....SC400T is the way to go!!!!!!!

I want to know why so many people want to twin turbo these motors...Other then getting turbo balance on each side of the engines (4 cylinders)...I see no point as a large single turbo V designed exhaust can produce alot of juice...

Two turbo's will probably give you more headaches, no? Wondering, can one turbo be made to operate at lowend and the other more at topend?... With two smaller twin turbo's is the lag time minimal in comparison to the one big single turbo?....Or are the twins simply used only to produce more massive power when combined? Anyone?????....

 

[JustenGT8]

The choice of twin versus single is complex. Twins let you get away with smaller inertial mass per air flow...yes you are splitting the gas to drive them but 2 small turbine are still easier to spin than 1 large one....why do you think Nissan went with twins on the GTR.

The choice does largely come down to packaging as with the reange of turbo these days you can achieve pretty much any desired result on a 1UZ with either. I went with twins because i had them sitting there left over from other projs...i would quite happily have gone with a big single.

Order would go like this...but the differences are marginal on a good sized engine like a 1U

small single - awesome bottom end
small twins - same but more top end
med single - same but maybe not the top end
med twins - good mid range and top but losing low end
large single (1000hp) - getting doughy low end but still not bad with high comp
large twins - shooting for 1200+

I consider my twin K3T (good for 450hp each) to be medium twins. I have 13psi by 2600rpm in 4th gear and it'll wheelspin with a good stab at the throttle pretty much any time you want it to and some times you don't (scarey).

Your GT35 will be nice

 

[WDoherty]

hey man, i noticed you said your bidding on a gt35r on ebay. I looked at them on ebay and didn't notice an genuine gt35r's that had bids. Many on ebay are "gt35 spec" with is not a gt turbo it is a t3/t4 copy and no telling what's going on with those. You need to be sure that it is a genuine garrett gt35r turbo. I've seen used one's go in the 600ish range on 4 cylinder cars where they decide the turbo is too big for 1.8L or whatever and new ones are buy it now about 12XX. So please be careful.
peace

 

[jibbby]

WD - No not on Ebay on this one... Ebay is dry.....

JustenGT8 - Thanks for the props on the GT35 as that turbo seems to be the favorites choice within the LEX hotrod community......Also, spinning the rears in four gear is sick...I can now barely spin the rears in second with 300whp....Congrats on some good engne power......

 

[YZFR1]

I still have my HKS 3037's and a dream


Dan

 

[turboteener]

Going for the turbo on my 1uz-fe...Bidding on a Garrett GT35R now, I want to what other parts I will need to complete the single turbo setup on my 1uz-fe.. Excluding all exhaust piping.... I plan on running somewhere in between 400-500whp whp on this setup... What fuel injectors to get? Blowoff valve, etc...A little help please from you turbo guys would be most appreciated...

Purchase list -

1) GT35R Single exhaust Turbo
2) ?
3) ?

You will need to buy:

Hose clamps for intercooler piping and water lines
Oil drain lines and AN fittings
3AN oil pressure line for the turbo
Air filter
O2 sensor bungs to weld into exhaust system
Aluminum sheet to make heat sheilds out of
turbo manifolds
Fitting to weld into drain pan
Injectors
Vaccum hose to handle blow off valves and waste gate lines
Boost gauge with requiste vaccum hose
ZIPTIES/TIEWRAPS
Ts to splice in for your coolant lines
Fittings to relocate oil pressure sensors, gauges, and feed lines
Misc. hose to cover amd protect braided hose
Intercooler and harware to mount said intercooler
All stainless hardware for anything in the exhaust system
Four ball and socket exhaust fittings in either 3in or 4in
Springs
Gasket material
Exhaust hangers
Coolant
Oil
Colder heat range spark plugs






A TRUE STAND ALONE FUEL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. None of this piggyback hack crap. DO it right and you will be much happier.

 

[jibbby]

turboteener- Had to print that one out....Thanks for the true list of all parts needed...Very complete....

Although, I understand a true stand alone ECU is always the best and most expensive choice, I see most of the turbo's guys using various piggy back units and doing just fine them...Even the best piggy backs such as the SMT6 and T7 seem to function just fine... Are you sure a stand alone ECU is a really needed with a single turbo on a 1uz-fe motor?....So much re-wiring involved with those stand alones....

 

[turboteener]

I have seen too many problems with piggy backs. For instance did you know that a Honda will throw timing if it sees a very rich mixture, such as the one created with an SMC, SAFC, or VAFC? The engine is confused because the piggy hack is faking out sensor readings. This little issue has caused many a blown motor.

I don't know specifically what the Toyota box does but I bet it does something similar. I see no reason why you can't take the stock ECU and create a jumper harness that will match up to the stock harness plugs. That way you can just plug and play.

 

[stevechumo]

John,

Here's the link to most of what you'll need to know about what are required in a turbo system. http://www.beesandgoats.com. You may click on the top right corner of the website. This site is for the Honda/Acura enthusiasts but it'll work for any turbo cars. The concept is pretty much similar. The difference is only the number and size of the parts.

David's Excel sheet for the injector calculation is really nice. However, this is what I used to calculate the injector size:

[HP (crank hp) x B.S.F.C (.50 for N/A, .60 for turbo)] / [No. of injectors x .80]

So if you need 400 whp, let's say about 450 crank hp, you'll have:

(450 x .60) / (8 x .80) = 270 / 6.4 = 42 lbs/hr per injector, or converting to cc = 42 lb/hr x 10.5 = 440 cc/min

With 8 injectors flowing 440 cc/min, you should be ok. However, to be safer, slightly larger injectors than 440 cc are preferrable.

 

[jibbby]

Excellent info...Thanks Steve....I forgot how knowledgeable you were with turbo's and all your years of experience with turbo charging all those Honda's....

You and turboteener seem to share the same background experience with turbocharging the Honds's.....

The funny thing is I didn't think many people turbo's their Honda's...Then to my suprise I did race a turbo'd older Honda civic hatchback that was pretty much gutted and super light in weight.....Needless to say I got him out of the gates, and then had the nos dialed in and could then see the honda catching me slightly with those front wheels spinning out next to me......I then realised the Honda was most likely turbo'd....I one the race by half a cars length after maybe a 1/8 mile...If that Honda would have had some guts out of the blocks I would have lost the race....I no longer take those smaller import cars lightly when I see all those extra boost gages, etc. mounted on top of the dashes.....

Anyway thanks for the info...much appreciated....

 

[Lextreme II]

....I no longer take those smaller import cars lightly when I see all those extra boost gages, etc. mounted on top of the dashes.....

Anyway thanks for the info...much appreciated....

You shouldn't take a old man's LS400 with one gauge mounted on top of the dash either..lol

 

[stevechumo]

John,

You're very welcome. Those Hondas that you raced could have been turbocharged but not those all-out Hondas that I've seen. I've seen a daily driving 500 whp 2000 lbs Acura car that flew like a flash.

You shouldn't take a old man's LS400 with one gauge mounted on top of the dash either..lol

Oops! You're politically correct. It was an awesome experience driving your car, David. It's so much torques and power to the feeling. If it wasn't at night, I'm positive I can push it to 120 mph in a few seconds. I think your LS might run in the high 4 or low 5 seconds. Even though my stock SC is estimated at 6.7 seconds, I still think it's more than 7 seconds. The other thing I like about your turbo LS is it's quiet inside from the exhaust. Toyota has made good noise insulation.

 

[turboteener]

Yeah I am moving really slow on my race car. I think I am going to pull the lexus motor off the frame jig and put it on a stand. May look at pulling the heads off. May not. I need to get back on this car.

Finished a couple of customer projects and should be able to get back to it.

 

[GSMnow]

Sorry, this got pretty long,

I guess I can chime in a bit with my turbo experience. I have to agree on the stand alone EFI system. From all the people I know that have tried to add a turbo on the cheap, anything over 6 psi of boost is just asking for trouble with a piggy back system. I ran an Electromotive TEC II with 550 cc injectors (rated at 45 psi, I was running 52 psi fuel pressure) on a 4 banger (Toyota 22RE in my Celica) an it was running close to 90% duty to make about 300 hp give or take. This suggests 8 of them would handle 600 crank HP. That is abit overkill for your goal, but not a problem with a stand alone EFI system. It would probably run like crap out of boost with a piggy back though. The only piggy back I really tried to tune for a guy was nearly impossible. Since it was a MAP sensor honda system we were able to use a rising rate FPR with 320 cc injectors (I think 280's were stock in the ZC motor) It would go closed loop at idle, but just barely, sometimes in different weather it would throw a rich exhaust error code. The rising rate regulator pushed the fuel pressure up to 90 psi by 8 psi of boost. I made sure the leanest it got under boost was 12 to 1 on an FJO wideband O2 meter. We used most of the range on an SAFC box to lean it down out of boost, and richen it up in boost. The 2 bar GM map sensor was not a good fit for the stock Honda ECU. But it did run strong and lived until the owner felt he could tune better (without a wide band O2 either)and went back to the 280 injectors because it idled too rich and got only 18 mpg. He made it 40 miles out of town before he blew the head gasket. After he replaced the gasket, he made it another 100 miles before he cracked 3 pistons. He tried to blame me, but I saw the 280 injectors in the motor and the 320s in his tool cart. The other Honda I did at the same time had a TEC I setup and we put 450 cc injectors in that one and made 225 hp out of a single cam 12 valve 1.5L in an 1800 pound 1985 Civic. That one lived until the drive caught 1st while going for 3rd, OUCH. Pushed all 4 exhaust valves through the pistons and trashed the head. Data log showed over 10,000 rpm.

Single vs Twin turbo??

Properly sized, either will make fine power. Lag is not going to be much different if they are both sized for equal air flow. The total spinning mass is more with twins, but the diameter is smaller, so the polar moment might end up a little less, but it is a tiny difference. I fel the greater reduction of lag in most twin setups is from having very short exhasy paths from the cylinders, and being able to have the pulses go right into the turbine housings. Using a split housing single on an inline 6 probably spools faster than twins. My friends turbo 355 Chevy is a single split housing with the firing order pulses split evenly from side to side on the turbo. It is alot of plumbing to do this, and it is not even close to equal length, but it is making 20 psi of boost at under 1500 rpm. It only dynoed at 600 hp, but that was at just 4200 rpm, it was making well over 800 lb ft of torque at even lower revs.

If it was legal for me to turbo (SCCA Street Mod class, no boost over 3.0 L) I would go with a single split turbine housing and make up a flap to force all the exhaust to one side of the housing until it hit 6 psi of boost. It would be basically 2 wastegates, one opening the other half of the turbo, and one venting to control max boost, arounf 15 psi or so. Mazda did something like this on the 88 RX-7's.

With twin turbos running into one throttle, I al always concerned that one turbo will end up doing more work. If the wastegates are not perfectly balanced, the one that cracks at a lower boost will start slowing and the other turbo starts to feed the whole motor. If there is no balance pipe ahead of the turboes, then this could go all the way to where one turbo is producing all of the boost.

Gary M.

 

[turboteener]

The biggest thing with twins versus singles is the boost "hit". Singles will hit harder at one time than to twins. Look at the Porsche 934 and 935. One had a big single and a the other had two smaller twins. The 935 is much easier to drive becuase the "hit" is much smoother.

For a street car with a single turbo you can size it so you have a nice power band from idle up without a lot of lag and the car will be fun to drive. But there is a reason why Porsche has gone with two turbos on their street cars.

 

[Lextreme II]

The only reason I don't like twin turbos is diagnose potential problem. You have two to mess with versus single you know exactly where to go. For example, I noticed one of my turbo was not making boost but which one? For single you just go directly to the turbo and its only one.

One thing nice around twin turbo is that they are compact. With a given space where large single might be difficulty to fit. However two smaller twin would work better. Once example would be the SC400. If I try to fit a GT42R into the engine space between the engine and the radiator. It might not fit. However, with the given space, a set of twin would work beautifully.

 

[jibbby]

You shouldn't take a old man's LS400 with one gauge mounted on top of the dash either..lol

Bring it old man - I just got the new built tranny in and if feels crisp and tight..Still need a tranny cooler though.... My nos system is now going to be a true 150 shot until turbo'd..I am removing the ball and leaving the nos cylinoids wide open for spray....Old Betsy is going to fly and be pretty tough to beat. Old betsy will also be pretty tough to maintain traction too....:shock:

Steve, Lex let you drive his LS4? Darn, I want to drive it and or race against it too...Where's the love? Good lowend torque you say?

Single turbo's seem the way to go for me...less headaches and not much of a difference in performance from the twins...Why twin?

Stand alone ECU's for turbo's, man that kinda sucks.....

 

[turboteener]

Why did one of your turbos not make boost? Why not just hook up a gauge to each one?

 

[Loroh]

Does twin turbo give you lower intake temps?

It always seems to me that twin turbo setups make more power on the same motor a single would.

And NO Im not talking about huge oversized turbos on drag cars, im thing of street use with low rpm boost like Lex's